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Discussion Starter #1
What is a decent setup to upgrade my front brakes.... pads and rotors, I am looking to spend about 200 dollars, so no bigger brakes, just slotted/cross drilled, and pads. Where is the cheapest place to buy these parts?
 

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I'm looking to do the same thing on my car. I am looking at the ATE Powerdiscs rotors and Axxis Ultimate pads. From what I have read, its a good setup for the street and the powerdiscs are pretty gentle on your pads.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Any idea on cost? I really don't have that much money... but I need new pads soon, and my OEM rotors are already warped from my "spirited" driving style.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Set of two right? Are the Axxis pads the ones with the sensors? I have a B5.5, so I need the sensors and the 11.3 inch rotors.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yea, I was about to say... those were for rears :p. Thanks! If you're looking for some good rotors, I just found some slotted/crossdrilled at www.ecstuning.com. Look pretty nice too. Any idea what the quietest out of the Metal masters/Ultimates are? I have heared mixed reviews among the two pads. Some claim Ultimates are quieter/Grip harder, some claim its the metal masters... what is your take?

*Edited for self retardation*
 

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I'm not sure which grips harder...I'll let you know how the Ultimates are once I put them on. I have Mintex's in the rear right now and stockies in the front. The Mintex pads are okay once they are heated up, but they suck when its cold. No squealing tho.

I looked at the ecstuing a8 brake upgrade, but I would need to run something bigger than my 15s in the winter, and that drove the price too high.
 

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pacent said:
... I am looking at the ATE Powerdiscs rotors and
hi,
can't recommend the ate powerdiscs.
Had them on my A4. There were crap. Awfull vibrations throughout the whole vehicle and metalic noise when breaking down from higher speeds. Got them replaced againts OEM-rotors by ate after 3 weeks without any costs.

greets,

Der
KolbenFresser
 

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I highly recommend the ATE Powerdiscs in the front with regular plain faced rotors in the rear using PBR/Axxis pads.

Now I want to inform people up front that the Ultimate Compound which uses Kevlar and Ceramic material isn't for everyone! This pad is a racing compound which performs very well in cold and high-temp braking scenarios, but it isn't a dustless pad. It produces less dust than the Jurid and Pagid Black compound pads used as OEM for Volkswagen, but it's not as dustless as per say an EBC Green compound pad. For most people, I would either recommend the PBR/Axxis Deluxe Plus or Metal Master brakepads. The Metal Masters are an excellent dust-free pad which has solid cold braking performance and is good when they are warmed up.

I don't want to discredit anyone in this forum but for the individual who had issues with ATE Powerdiscs on an Audi, your bad experience is rare! Also, from what you described it sounds like you didn't properly bed the pads into the rotors. Speaking of which, with any new brake install please follow the correct bedding-in process or you will have a horrible experience!!! This is why the VW OEM pads are infamous for ruining rotors because most mechanics inform drivers to take it easy on the brakes for the first 300-500 miles while they wear-in. :mad: Here's an excellent website which gives instructions on how to bed-in your pads:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Good luck, and enjoy the new setup!!!

Swami

ps. Be sure to use a good Anti-Seize or Brake Squeal compound on the rear shims during installation!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Rear shims? Wouild a mechanic know to do this or is it something that would be a preference to reduce noise...

I don't want a pad that makes a lot of noise.
 

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VWPassatGLX155 said:
Yea, I was about to say... those were for rears :p. Thanks! If you're looking for some good rotors, I just found some slotted/crossdrilled at www.ecstuning.com. Look pretty nice too. Any idea what the quietest out of the Metal masters/Ultimates are? I have heared mixed reviews among the two pads. Some claim Ultimates are quieter/Grip harder, some claim its the metal masters... what is your take?

*Edited for self retardation*
It's not an issue about which pad material is quieter. The PBR/Axxis Metal Masters and Deluxe Plus pads are designed to be quieter but with proper installation using a quality Anti-Seize or Brake Squeal compound, and a good bed-in procedure you can prevent vibration which causes the annoying squeal.

I'm highly against the use of cross-drilled rotors on street applications. Many tuners, including my favorite ECS-Tuning, use quality rotors and CRC-drill them with a good slot and drill pattern. This in my opinion weakens the rotor and damages internal venting which can cause uneven pad wear. Also, the drill points tend to crack over time which isn't an issue for a racer who changes brake components often. Now Disc Brake Australia, Porsche, and Mercedes Benz OEM cross-drilled rotors are forged with the holes in them instead of being drilled.

Again, to each his own but I use ATE Powerdiscs on the street and in racing applications and they rock! Now if you want to use a good plain-faced rotor, there's nothing better than Brembos!!
 

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VWPassatGLX155 said:
Rear shims? Wouild a mechanic know to do this or is it something that would be a preference to reduce noise...

I don't want a pad that makes a lot of noise.
VWPassatGLX155, it depends on how experienced your mechanic is concerning brakes.

The reason brakepads squeal is because of vibration when the pads make contact to the rotor. Shims are material which sits between the rear of the brakepad and the caliper. This material helps with pad seating and in some cases can absorb the vibration which causes squealing. There's 2 well 3 types of shims: metallic, plastic adhesive, and those already designed into the brakepad. Most cars come with metallic shims from the factory. It's not a good idea to re-use metallic one's because they tend to rust and will not fit correctly on non-OEM pads. (This is one issue that can cause squealing!) Adhesive shims are basically generic one's that you tape on the back of your pads. I used adhesive shims on the rear brakes of my W8 even though the PBR/Axxis Ultimates have them already designed into the pad. Now most new OEM replacement pads have shim material built on the rear of the brakepads!

Now even though most new pads have shims, you should apply some form of brake-quiet compound on the rear of the pads. I use Lubro-Molly Anti-Seize compound but there's so many brands on the market. Stay away from the Spray-On stuff because it doesn't last very long!
 

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VWPassatGLX155 said:
Even rotors like zimmerman are prone to cracking?

I was considering getting this setup
http://www.parts4vws.com/catalog/product_detail.asp?PartNumber=11.3ZD(B5)/Ferodo
I have no idea what "Ferodo pads" are though :roll: :???:

Has anyone used them?
Yes, even Zimmerman rotors that are CRC drilled by a vendor will crack at the drill points. The plain faced Zimmerman and Brembo rotors are awesome but tuners screw them up by drilling holes in them!! If you want quality cross-drilled rotors, you might want to spend the extra money on one's from Disc Brake Australia which are forged. DBA rotors are very expensive and almost twice the cost. ($170ea rotor)

Ferrodo brake pads are pretty aggressive on rotors but they are a great on the track. I don't like using them because they tend to be very dusty and don't last long! Also during bedding the Ferrodo's smell pretty bad, almost as bad as EBC Green compounds.
 

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The Swami said:
1. ... your bad experience is rare!

2. .... like you didn't properly bed the pads into the rotors.

3. http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
hi Swami,

1. YES, ate also was a little bit astonished hearing about my concerns. The problems I encountered really seem to be rare ... but they were there.

2. After the change I drove around in the city for about 1 week making approx. 200 km whilst commuting. Max speed around 100 km/h. After that week I had to make about 1500 km on the Autobahn for business reasons ( "no time, no time, leave the left lane, you lame ducks ... ") . That means a Brake down from 200 km/h to 120 or somewhat every 30 min. If these pads weren't properly bedded in after that procedure, then I don't know how to do this ...

3. Aaaarrrgh,
This ist EXACTLY the opposite of that, every expert ( incl. ate ) ever has told me. Are they all idiots ?

My main-concern about the powerdiscs have been the awfull vibrations. An ate-Engineer on the hot-line told me that it perhaps may have been the so called "Vierlenker-Vorderrad-Aufhängung" (can't translate this). It is a known bug for vibrations and noise of every flavor ....

greetings..

Der
KolbenFresser
 

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I'll throw in my $.02-worth...
My setup for the last 2+yrs was Powerdiscs in the front, stock in the rear, with Mintex Redbox all around. No squealing problems, no dust.
I attended 4 HPDE sessions last year with this setup and had no issues (besides the lack of _good_ braking power; expected, though) until midway through the final session. I warped the rotors pretty good during that last session. After that session, upon medium to heavy braking, I'd get a moaaaan along with slight vibration. I'm always careful to really use the cool-down lap for it's intended purpose. I think it was just a combination of the Redbox pads along with harder braking on my part.
For this season, I'm sticking with plain-faced Brembos ($47ea local) for the ability to re-surface, if necessary. Also, based on the raves by Swami himself, I just installed the Ultimates this past weekend ($52 local). Bedded them in and all I can say is WOW! Granted, this is expected since the Ultimates are meant to be night'n'day vs the Redbox, but it's still quite a shock. The wife even asked me: "Why are you stopping so soon?" after I ended up leaving a 2-car gap at a red-light. Guess I gotta get used to the extra grip on the street. :D
I whole-heartedly agree with using some sort of anti-squeal on pads, regardless of which brand of pad. The Ultimates have an integral shim, but I still used the orange CRC antil-squeal. This stuff is sticky! I had to pry my old Redbox's off with a screwdriver.
Will post my experiences with the Ultimates after the first track day next week. Thanks for all the info, Swami! :thumbup:
 
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