[Saurdkraut]

Hello all
I have read through many threads here about sticking brakes but my experience has me totally baffled. I have done lots of brakes both for street and track driving so I am not new to this type of work. My car is a 2005 Passat wagon, AWM 1.8t, 5 speed, 160,000 miles. It needed new front brakes so I ordered a pair of Brembos, Mintex pads and Petosin Dot 4 brake fluid. Installed parts yesterday then went to bleed system. Pressed brake pedal to seat pads and pedal would not come up by itself. Pulled it up and pressed again got a solid pedal. Sucked reservoir down with bastor as much old fluid as possible, filled to top attached pressure bleeder and bled all brakes including clutch. Put tires back on, front rotors turned freely, fired up car. The STOP, check manual warning appeared. Took wheels off, checked everything at each wheel and nothing. Checked fluid it was at minimum mark so I added fluid. Turned motor on and everything good. Put wheels back on and put car on ground. Take it for test drive and the car feels sluggish, will not coast. Drive it a bit further start smelling brakes. Not going faster than 25 mph for less than 1/4 mile. Pull over and smoke billowing out of wheels. Let it sit couple of minutes and start rolling and heading for home. When I get home, more smoke, ABS light on and car barely moves forward. Parked car and go inside to read up on this. Cannot find anything close so I decide to take everything apart again in morning. Here is the totally wierd part...go to move the car into garage, no ABS lights and car rolls down driveway after releasing parking brake...tried it twice, car rolls freely no resistance. Heading into garage now to diassemble and bleed brakes.

I do not have VAGCOM only have a generic scan tool so can not provide codes. Anyone ever experience this sort of thing replacing front pads and rotors? After I get done taking things apart and putting them back, I will post results of what I find.

I am really starting to wonder about the brakes now because they have never been a problem before this.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

[B5 Money Pit]

I just sorted my brakes after a stuck rear caliper revealed itself on the right side following a pad/rotor refresh.

I thought I had bled the whole system thoroughly after the caliper replacement. Apparently, I was wrong.

I believe I may have let the fluid reservoir go dry and introduced air into the ABS system up front.

The mystery air pocket also revealed itself in a pedal stuck to floor and the STOP! Brake fault as I went to seat the new caliper/pads.

So, another good and very looong bleed session proved that there was indeed a great deal of air in the front after the master cylinder, probably in the ABS pump.

Lesson learnt: buy the great big bottle of fluid because you'll need it to be really certain you've got all the air out after doing a significant brake job that requires opening up the system.

So that and: I really do like the Motive power bleeder system.

 

[Emry]

I really do like the Motive power bleeder system.

I'm also interested in buying one of these to bleed my brakes. How does it actually work? Do you hook it up to the MC?
I'm just curious as how it sucks out all the brake fluid. It seems a great way compared to traditional way.

 

[2002GLXV6]

I'm also interested in buying one of these to bleed my brakes. How does it actually work? Do you hook it up to the MC?
I'm just curious as how it sucks out all the brake fluid. It seems a great way compared to traditional way.

The Motive bleeder does not suck. It uses pressure and pushes brake fluid through the system. It attaches to the brake fluid reservoir.

And anyone doing brake work is just foolish not to invest in one.

Instructions are here.

Power Bleeder Instructions - Motive Products

 

[B5 Money Pit]

Emry,

The Motive Power Bleeder is pretty much like a garden spray pump bottle, essentially.

As you suggested, to operate it, you connect it to the MC cap. There's a Euro cap that apparently fits most euro makes including VAG. There's another cap that fits Ford and many Asian imports. You can look up which cap you need on motive's site.

I got my euro system for $55 (pump and cap) on Amazon prime, by the way. And I also bought the Ford cap for $25 which, before you balk at the price, turns out it is made of CNC aluminum and anodized, high quality.

So, the pump tank is designed to be filled with 12-24 oz of fresh fluid. Attach the cap end to the MC reservoir, pump it up to (I found) about 7-10psi (there's a pressure gauge on the tank), and then go open up the farthest bleeder and prepare to be awed.

There are some you tuber's who say they like to keep their motive pump's reservoir tank clean and dry, just pump up the tank without fluid and use air to pressurize the system. I tried that at first, and I believe that's how I either ran the MC reservoir dry, and/or introduced air into the front of the system, likely into the ABS pump, resulting in a STOP! and a brake pedal on the floor.

So my next attempt at actually filling the Motive's tank with fluid and proceeding as instructed worked great. It kept the MC reservoir topped off full, and efficiently pushed all of the fluid to the calipers, no problem. Solid pedal, no whistles and flashing warnings. Firm brakes.

 

[Tomvw]

Air in the system shouldn't cause brakes to lock.
This is usually caused by the MC piston not fully returning.

First check for something preventing the pedal from returning completely to the stop.
The common problem is the lower dash panel (above the pedals) not installed correctly.

Another possibility is the rod that pushes the MC piston is not properly seated in the piston, this could have happened when you pulled the pedal back.

 

[Saurdkraut]

Thanks to all who responded. Here is the update I promised. I took everything apart and reassembled everything. Nothing sticking or hanging up. Added more lube to the carrier pins. Bled the brakes using almost an entire quart. No air bubbles! Put wheels back on and all were spinning freely. Set car on ground and took for test drive. Everything worked fine. No binding so I decided to bed the pads. By the fourth session I noticed the brakes binding but only slightly. Continued through to seventh session started to smell brake pad and experienced fading. Kept driving to cool brakes and contined to notice slight binding. Do not know why this came to mind but I placed my foot under brake pedal and pulled up...binding stopped immediately. I have been driving to work everyday sinc and keep pulling up on brake pedal to make sure there is no binding. Every once in awhile I still get slight binding and pulling pedal up stops it. Odd thing about pulling up on pedal is that it is maybe only 2 -4 mm of play.

I think I will look into what Tomvw suggested though my lower dash panel has not been off since I have owned he car but I will check anyway. Is there an easy way to determine whether the MC push rod is out of alignment without taking the dash apart?

BTW I made my own power bleeder from a one gallon garden sprayer, about 3 feet of clear tubing, a couple of fender washers, a brass barb, a replacement reservoir cap and some black rtv. Whole thing cost me about$15 and about an hours time. Found the idea on a website. I will see if I can find it and will post it. I do not keep brake fluid in mine because I do not race anymore so I do not go through brake fluid that much. I check the reservoir after doing each wheel to be safe.

 

[Saurdkraut]

Here are the instructions to make your own pressure bleeder.
Do

 

[Tomvw]

No point in checking the MC push rod, in your case it is something restricting the pedal.

 

[Saurdkraut]

Thanks to all who responded. I have diven the car to and from work without a problem. I am planning on removing the lower dash anyway just to make sure nothing is rubbing. I can still pull up o pedal occassionally.

 

[Emry]

The Motive bleeder does not suck. It uses pressure and pushes brake fluid through the system. It attaches to the brake fluid reservoir. And anyone doing brake work is just foolish not to invest in one.
Instructions are here. Power Bleeder Instructions - Motive Products

After reading this, I think it is easy to introduce air in the brake lines if not done properly.
I let a shop bleed the brake fluid 3 years ago but as of now my brakes are soft. So I think there might be air in the lines.

 

[FamousDan]

I had similar problem with brake pedal not coming up all the way. In my case, the lock nut on the the MC Push Rod was not tightened down (by PO, not me, I won't name names) and the push rod would gradually change its effective length. I was constantly pulling up the brake pedal with my foot (very little actual movement on the pedal, huge immediate effect on brakes "sticking on") until I realized what was going on. One sign that should have clued me in was that the brake pedal height was quite a bit different from the clutch pedal height.

But anyway, check out that lock nut on the MC Push Rod length adjustment if you can't find any other reason.

 

[2002GLXV6]

After reading this, I think it is easy to introduce air in the brake lines if not done properly.
I let a shop bleed the brake fluid 3 years ago but as of now my brakes are soft. So I think there might be air in the lines.

If you follow the motive instructions it would be difficult to introduce air into the system. It makes the whole process of flushing the brake system of old fluid and or bleeding the brakes very easy and fast.
Providing you add your brake fluid to the motive tank. Some people try to just use the motive as a pressure source and keep adding fluid to the brake reservoir on the car. This is not the way to go.

 

[JayTheSnork]

OP, you have an 11 1/2 yr old car. the brake calipers are that old as well. it is possible you have a binding in the caliper inner wall that managed to clear itself up.

Emry and all here, I've found that bleeding even with a Motive requires bleeding each corner sequentially, 4 times minimum, to ensure you get all of the air out - and especially when you replace a caliper. some places take shortcuts to move cars out the door at their garage.

 

[Tomvw]

There is no good reason to bleed the brakes more than once if you do it right the first time.

 

[JayTheSnork]

There is no good reason to bleed the brakes more than once if you do it right the first time.

based on my experience with these cars, I'll beg to differ. I've done at least a dozen of these, and they always end up the same way, requiring at least 4 times around the car - even with the Motive. for some reason, air bubbles hide in this system.