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http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081024/NEWS/810240332/-1/NEWS10
After the November election, Democrats will push for a second economic stimulus package that includes money for the states' stalled infrastructure projects, along with help paying for healthcare expenses, food stamps and extended unemployment benefits, U.S. Rep. Barney Frank said Thursday.

In a meeting with the editorial board of The Standard-Times, Rep. Frank, D-Mass., also called for a 25 percent cut in military spending, saying the Pentagon has to start choosing from its many weapons programs, and that upper-income taxpayers are going to see an increase in what they are asked to pay.

The military cuts also mean getting out of Iraq sooner, he said...

..."We don't need all these fancy new weapons. I think there needs to be additional review."
Not only would such a cut be incredibly irresponsible, it would be flat out dangerous. His "logic" is absolutely idiotic. Elmer Fudd...I mean Barney Frank...is as friggin' dumb as box of rocks. This is one example as to why an Obama presidency combined with a Democratic Congress would be so incredibly problematic.
 

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Why do you we need to spend some much?

Where would you like to start cutting? Troop pay? Troop readiness? Future weapons development? Upkeep? Upgrades? I'd just like to know where he or anyone would find a 25% reduction. Especially after the toll these last few years have taken. I'd rather see them not cut this Constitutionally mandated area and focus on cutting some of the areas that the federal government has no responsibility sticking their noses into.
 
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GlobalFirepower.com

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This is in 2006, imagine now.

What more do you want, I guess if you can't kill'em with kindness, just kill'em.
 

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I vote for BF donating all the money he made from propping up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac until they failed first, before he ask a dime from any of us. Of course he nor the media would admit any wrong doing on his behalf
 

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Where would you like to start cutting? ...
Iraq. Afghanistan. Nukes. Space Weapons. Offensive weapons. Imperial military outposts (U.S. bases in many of the more than 100 countries in which they are now located). etc, etc.
Why don't you research further the proposed cuts and tell us which you, the sciteach, see as dangerous. Meanwhile, here are a couple of links to help you understand the military budget:
The Center for Defense Information: http://www.cdi.org/index.cfm
The National Priorities Project: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/
 

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So all the people that said our troops didn't have the armor or the benifits or the pay or the support, what say you now. If we want to cut defense where do we start? I would keep us the fuck out of other countries, thats just me, unless directly attacked, but I wasn't bitching about what they didn't have when they were there. My view has always been now that we are there lets do the job, but I specifically remember people on here complaining about the Bush administration not giving them what they need. So if we cut spending there, where do we start?
 

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Iraq. Afghanistan. Nukes. Space Weapons. Offensive weapons. Imperial military outposts (U.S. bases in many of the more than 100 countries in which they are now located). etc, etc.
Why don't you research further the proposed cuts and tell us which you, the sciteach, see as dangerous. Meanwhile, here are a couple of links to help you understand the military budget:
The Center for Defense Information: http://www.cdi.org/index.cfm
The National Priorities Project: http://www.nationalpriorities.org/
What are offensive weapons? Almost all weapons are offensive. I guess this means the only thing you would support is SDI (non space based). Without offensive weapons, how do you respond to and disable your enemy?

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, I think Barney is referring to the general defense budgets, so those really don't apply. I believe that those are covered mostly under supplemental budgeting.

Nukes? You mean you want us to disarm or do you want us to rely on aging/inferior nuclear weapons?

"Imperial military outposts"? I'm sure we would leave if they places that are home to these bases really wanted us to. However, I don't think that would help in our ability to respond to situations as they arise. I could probably support a limited draw down in Western Europe.

Space weapons? What is so bad about space weapons? What if they are defensive in nature?
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Why do you we need to spend some much?
A number of reasons. I hate to throw out a ton of links as an argument but the issue is so important...and you asked the question. ;) I hope you take to the time to look at them. The following are just a few examples from only the Air Force to help illustrate the point:

Questions for the Candidates
At an April 9 Senate hearing, the Air Force warned that it faces a future shortage of some 800 fighters, the aircraft needed to ensure US air dominance. The public shrugged.

It is time to accept that the erosion of US airpower—and of the US military generally—doesn’t move the people. A Gallup Poll says 74 percent of Americans think we spend either "too much" or the right amount on defense. It’s no surprise, therefore, that military problems (except for the Iraq War) rarely intrude on the Presidential campaign. No candidate has made a special point of rebuilding our worn-out forces.

Such serene indifference has an expiration date. The next President, on Inauguration Day, will confront some nasty, complex, and unavoidable problems, as President Bush hands over a force pushed to near-collapse by underfunding and overuse...
...The relative defense-spending burden on American taxpayers is at historically low levels—equivalent to about 3.4 percent of Gross Domestic Product (not counting the costs of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which have nothing to do with maintaining a strong military). Under Ronald Reagan, equipping, manning, and sustaining the force took six percent. Today’s Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Michael G. Mullen, calls for raising today’s DOD budget modestly to the equivalent of four percent of GDP, or $600 billion a year. Do you believe that level is affordable?

Top Air Force leaders say it will take an additional $20 billion a year to fix the service’s hardware woes. Do you believe that level is affordable?

Come to think of it, how do you define "affordable"? Will you apply the same standard to popular entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid?
Catastrophic Failure
The Secretary of the Air Force, Michael W. Wynne, reports the average age of an Air Force aircraft in 1973 was eight years but today is 24 years and headed toward 26.5 years in 2012. The problem goes well beyond the F-15 to include most of the major aircraft types—bombers, tankers, and transports no less than fighters.

USAF’s 505 KC-135 refueling tankers average more than 46 years of age. Many C-130 transports are grounded due to poor reliability and concern for their in-flight safety. C-5A cargo aircraft have low availability because of frequent maintenance...

...Today, more than 800 aircraft—14 percent of the USAF fleet—are grounded or operating under various flight restrictions. Older fighters in the near future won’t be up to fighting modern air defenses or modern fighters.

The Air Force is “going out of business,” said Wynne. He added, “At some time in the future, [aircraft] will simply rust out, age out, fall out of the sky.” Indeed, it is already happening.
Oct 4, 2008: USAF Grounds A-10 Warthogs Over Wing Fatigue Concerns

Jan 10, 2008: Aging F-15's Plagued By Defective Beam

Do you know how old the B-52 is? Do you know how long it's scheduled to remain in service? Check it out

Lurching Toward a Cliff

And those articles don't even really get into the detail of the new challenges presented by cyber-warfare and the cost that it's advanced technologies bring.

At the same time, other countries are not sitting still. Take China and their resurgent military as an example:
China Flexes Its Muscles

This article was written in response to China's ASAT shot the destroyed an orbiting satellite:
Moseley's Warning
After decades of defense spending increases, China’s overall program now is on a par with Japan, Britain, and Russia, he said, and its long-range aviation is “increasingly capable and lethal,” as witness four advances:

New fighters. China is fielding a pair of “Generation 4.5” fighters—the Su-30MKK, co-produced with Russia’s Sukhoi, and the indigenous J-10, which resembles the Eurofighter and is deployed in squadron strength.

Airborne early warning. “They have an AWACS system that’s as good as any other,” said Moseley. China has built its own system using an Il-76 airframe. It is currently in operation.

Aerial refuelers. Moseley said “they have tankers” and that China is using them to “extend the range of their fighters.”

Stand off munitions. Chinese Su-30s are getting a new cruise missile similar to the USAF Joint Standoff Weapon. According to the Chief, China’s Air Force is building a bigger air-to-surface missile, perhaps anti-ship in nature, for its bombers...

...In his own way, Moseley is acting to alert Americans to the gathering Chinese challenge in air and space. He has been careful not to overplay his hand; today, the situation is neither desperate nor beyond repair. However, the time for action is now.
Also, consider the apparent developments with China's ASAT lasers:
Sept 27, 2006: Beijing secretly fires lasers to disable US satellites

In 2009, Russia will increase it's defense spending by 26% and will spend more as a percentage of GDP than the U.S. (although we will still far outspend in terms of actual dollars): Russian Military Spending

Don't get me wrong, I'm for fiscal responsibility and accountability but 25% reduction or anything close right now is beyond silly. The world is not sitting still and there is much to be done in the way of upgrading our forces. It must be done. Failure to do so is simply negligent. This is one of the primary responsibilities of the federal government.
 

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Where would you like to start cutting? Troop pay? Troop readiness? Future weapons development? Upkeep? Upgrades?
I'd start by cutting the programs the Pentagon doesn't want but has because someone in congress thinks they know better. Then I move that money to the systems the Pentagon wants but can't buy because again, congress things it knows best.

Missile defense will seem cheap in comparison to what the bill would be if one rouge country lobs a nuke or a tank full of chemical warfare agents into one of our major cities. However, I would also fund research into putting more advanced detection systems at port of entries.
 
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It just an example of how someone can be a complete idiot, yet still be seen as having value.
 

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So the military shouldn't be cut at all? The budget deficit problem should be ignored? Like anything in a large organization (government or business) there is fat to be cut somewhere and it doesn't mean that you don't support your troops. Military spending shouldn't be treated like a sacred cow. America needs to revise it's perceived role for it's military and other countries need to do more. Obviously America cannot afford to be the world police anymore and it has to reconsider acting alone. Meanwhile millions of Americans go without healthcare.
 
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You pointed out incompetence so did i, and everybody in the hole always stays on topic.
 
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