[4zfed]

I am in the process of refreshing a 2003 wagon with a non 4-mo AT. It has 140k miles and the ATF is black, leading me to suspect it has never been changed.

I have changed ATF on Passats many times, so I know proper procedure. What I am wanting input on is the steps people think I should follow due to the extreme nature of this change.

How many times should I expect to change the fluid in order to get all clean fluid throughout the system?

Should I drive it at all between changes or just keep draining-filling-draining-filling until fluid is clean?

If draining-filling-draining-filling, should I wait and change the filter at the end or after the first drain? If after the first drain, should I change it again after the fluid is clean?

I am just nervous about doing this given that these trannies are famous for crapping-out.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Tomvw]

I suggest you follow this procedure once or twice, I think once is enough.

ATF & Filter change. taligentx.com: Passat - ATF & Filter Replacement


If you do it once you will end up with about 33% old ATF.

If you do it twice:
The first time, remove drain and refit the old filter and gasket.
Drive the car at least 50 miles between changes.
The second time, fit new filter and gasket. This will leave about 11% old ATF.

If you did it a third time (which I don't recommend) it would take it down to about 4% old ATF.

 

[Emry]

Just be very careful not to strip the tranny cover bolts. They strip easily and you end up not being able to drop the pan (like myself ). Definitely use quality hex sockets and if you have it an impact driver.

 

[Tomvw]

No wonder they stripped if you used a hex tool, I think you will find that they are Torx.

 

[kutcht1]

Yep torx, and if I remember a T-27. A T-25 will feel like it fits and works but you will end up with a stripped head.
TomK

 

[cchief22]

impact ? I do not understand, do you mean to remove or did you mean torque wrench ?, I think they are only at 84 inch pounds.....

 

[Emry]

No wonder they stripped if you used a hex tool, I think you will find that they are Torx.

Obviously it was a typo. I don't think you can even remove them by hex. My torx tool were cheap and caused the stripping of the tip of the screws.

 

[Emry]

impact ? I do not understand, do you mean to remove or did you mean torque wrench ?, I think they are only at 84 inch pounds.....

There are impact screw drivers you can use to remove the pan bolts (not the impact wrench). That helps preventing the stripping of the screw heads.

 

[Emry]

Yep torx, and if I remember a T-27. A T-25 will feel like it fits and works but you will end up with a stripped head.
TomK

I don't recall which I used. I was able to remove all but the very last one and thus was not able to drop the pan at the end. After changing the ATF, the pan started leaking exactly from that stripped bolt. Ended up paying $150 to a mechanic shop to replace that one damned one. The bad part of the story is that I could not change the filter.

 

[ylwagon]

How many times should I expect to change the fluid in order to get all clean fluid throughout the system?

Should I drive it at all between changes or just keep draining-filling-draining-filling until fluid is clean?

If draining-filling-draining-filling, should I wait and change the filter at the end or after the first drain? If after the first drain, should I change it again after the fluid is clean?

I am just nervous about doing this given that these trannies are famous for crapping-out.

The only way to have new, fresh ATF throughout is to empty the torque converter and radiator cooling lines, so in other words, probably never. But that's OK, because there is no danger from mixing some old with your new ATF.

You certainly can do your drain/refills back to back if you want, although I don't think there is much benefit to that except saving labor. And once the filter is changed, it may not need changing again. Most of the clutch debris will be caught during the breaking-in period, after that there shouldn't be much for the filter to catch.

With occasional fluid changes, these transmissions should last. My '96 A4 had over 270,000 miles on it's 5HP19 trans, shifted great, the only thing wrong was the lockup clutch began to slip occasionally, however most people would not notice the lack of TC lock. My'05 A4 has 185,000 with no trans faults. Regarding the ATF, I've used Valvoline Maxlife synthetic for years, don't own Valvoline stock or anything like that, but can say that it's worked perfectly well for me.

 

[cchief22]

There are impact screw drivers you can use to remove the pan bolts (not the impact wrench). That helps preventing the stripping of the screw heads.

now I know what you are referencing to.... It is always the last one (Murphy's Law) ,being from rust belt replaced mine with 6mm stainless steel button head cap screws.

 

[Emry]

My '96 A4 had over 270,000 miles on it's 5HP19 trans, shifted great

Did A4 and B5.5 use the same tranny?

I've used Valvoline Maxlife synthetic for years, don't own Valvoline stock or anything like that, but can say that it's worked perfectly well for me.

But using Valvoline MaxLife turned the shifting sluggish for me. At 120K, I didn't want to spend extra bucks to get VW ATF so I used Valvoline and drained/refilled it twice with 500 miles in between. Due to the stripped screw I was not able to change the filter but the filter was changed at 60K miles so I can't imagine that is the culprit for the slow gear shifting.
I read mixed reports about MaxLife. Many have used it with no issues and many (like myself) have had tranny issue after using it. This brings us to the dilemma of cheaping out on genuine VW ATF versus the after market ones. I learned my lesson not to save on critical part like tranny although somewhat late.

 

[Emry]

now I know what you are referencing to.... It is always the last one (Murphy's Law) ,being from rust belt replaced mine with 6mm stainless steel button head cap screws.

I didn't have an extractor and was desperate to get it done to go back to my residence. But it started leaking and I believe lost about .5 qt before the mechanic shop was able to fix it. Funny part is that I went on and bought professional grade extractor after that but never have used them

 

[Hirnbeiss]

If you really want to flush the fluid out, you can use the transmission pump and cooler lines. This is not a VW approved procedure, but it is done on all automatics.
- Drop pan, replace filter
- install pan, add new fluid.
- disconnect cooler line (the line from the cooler - bottom line on the radiator) at the transmission and attach a clear tube to it
- put the tube in a measured bucket. Secure it so it won't move once fluid starts squirting through it. Make sure you can see the level (or have a helper) so you turn off the engine in time. You don't want to run the pump dry.
- start the engine and run for a short period until 3 quarts of fluid - no more - have entered the bucket. Turn off engine immediately.
- add 3 quarts of new fluid and repeat the above step.
- repeat the above step. Upon completion you will have replaced about 9 quarts, depending on what you initially drained and refilled. Since the capacity is 9.5 quarts, you are essentially done. Feel free to repeat again if you hate any amount of diluted old fluid.
- fill to correct level with warm, running, level car

 

[Emry]

If you really want to flush the fluid out, you can use the transmission pump and cooler lines. This is not a VW approved procedure, but it is done on all automatics.
- Drop pan, replace filter
- install pan, add new fluid.
- disconnect cooler line (the line from the cooler - bottom line on the radiator) at the transmission and attach a clear tube to it
- put the tube in a measured bucket. Secure it so it won't move once fluid starts squirting through it. Make sure you can see the level (or have a helper) so you turn off the engine in time. You don't want to run the pump dry.
- start the engine and run for a short period until 3 quarts of fluid - no more - have entered the bucket. Turn off engine immediately.
- add 3 quarts of new fluid and repeat the above step.
- repeat the above step. Upon completion you will have replaced about 9 quarts, depending on what you initially drained and refilled. Since the capacity is 9.5 quarts, you are essentially done. Feel free to repeat again if you hate any amount of diluted old fluid.
- fill to correct level with warm, running, level car

Even this procedure won't replace the old fluid 100% (as you stated 9 qt vs 9.5 qt). Thus given the expense and labor involved with this procedure I'm questioning the benefit of it compared to the double drain/refill act which replaces almost 90% of the old fluid. As ylwagon said the remaining old fluid in the system will be so diluted that won't have any noticeable adverse effect.

 

[ylwagon]

Did A4 and B5.5 use the same tranny?

The B5 A4, B5/5.5 Passats, and B6 A4 automatics were available (in the U.S.) with the ZF 5-speed 5HP19-series, in addition to some BMWs, Porsche Boxster, and others. I assume most were FWD, some AWD (Audi Quattro, VW 4-Motion), and some RWD (BMW). All similar, but not "the same".

 

[Iowegian]

+1 on being careful with the pan bolts. They are indeed T27 and not T25 but even with the right tool, there are a boatload of them and it's easy to get careless on the 20th one...
Given the heat cycles they experience they can be tough to crack loose. Clean the bolt holes well before starting and keep the tool absolutely perpendicular to the bolt head.

 

[Emry]

Clean the bolt holes well before starting and keep the tool absolutely perpendicular to the bolt head.

These are exactly two critical factors I defaulted on. Because of lack of space my arms and wrist were tired enough not to hold the torx perpendicular. I guess the angle and the fact that may be I used a T25 attributed to stripping the head of the last bolt. Also I was lazy to clean the bolt holes as they were full of dirt and grease. O'Well! you learn your lesson but too late as usual :crazy:

 

[Tomvw]

If you just drain and re-fill twice (about 3 quarts each time) you will end up with about 45% old ATF.

 

[Emry]

If you just drain and re-fill twice (about 3 quarts each time) you will end up with about 45% old ATF.

Each refill takes about 6 qt. not 3. As you said in post #2, after two drain and refill you end up with about 10% old fluid in the system.