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Discussion Starter #1
I just had a debate with one of my co-worker on this topic. She said that she raised her son to understand that a marriage is between a man and a woman. Then with the recent controversy on TV about gay marriages, she claims that it's "confused her son to thinking that it's okay to marry a person of the same sex." Of course this alarms me.

I asked her what she's worried about... she says that she's afraid that her son will basically "become gay". I challenged her... saying that people are either born gay or born heterosexual. It's predetermined. She rebutted saying that people can become gay if they are influenced enough by this idea. That of course pissed me off and I feel is a very irrational way to think. The debate went on and let's just say it got no where in the end.

What are your thoughts on this? Are there any online references that can prove my point that people do not become gay if they grew up aroung gay people? I'd like to show it to my co-worker.
 

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This is the nature vs. nuture debate. I didn't think research had proved this conclusively one way or the other. Anyone know?

It it hasn't been proved either way, then it is basically a bunch of opinions that may have more to do with faith than with proof.
 

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One can choose any lifestyle they want even if it goes against their nature... I'd guess that those who are being true to themselfs and their inner desires were born with it though...

When all else fails refer to South Park. :wink:
 

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OneGuyInCA said:
Then with the recent controversy on TV about gay marriages, she claims that it's "confused her son to thinking that it's okay to marry a person of the same sex." Of course this alarms me.

I asked her what she's worried about... she says that she's afraid that her son will basically "become gay".
Sad day for her son. Now that he's formed his own opinion on the situation, I'm sure she'll force her views on him just the way someone elses views must have been forced on her to be against gay marriage. If she was able to make up her own mind, then she should allow her son.

And if she's worried about her son becoming gay because of all the news on TV....then make sure he doesn't watch any of the McDonalds or Pizza Hut commercials....I heard they make you fat.

If people choose to be gay....than that would also make it that straight people choose to be straight. So, looking back when would everyone have choosen their future?
 

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I would have to agree with you, One Guy. A person is born that way. If a child is raised in a same sex "family" that does not turn the child gay! It might make the child curious by not gay.
 

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WhiteB5Wagon said:
If people choose to be gay....than that would also make it that straight people choose to be straight. So, looking back when would everyone have choosen their future?
OMG, that is the smartest thing I have heard on this topic yet!!!!!!!

I think people are probably born gay. I grew up with gay people in my extended family. "Rightness" or "wrongness" was never mentioned. It was just a fact of life. No biggie.
 

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Hmm...I'm think it's diffucult to say. As with many other things (pysical or personality traits), I think most ppl are born with pre-dispositions. I remember studying in some psych class in UC San Diego that most homosexuals out there, contrary to poplular opinion, are not strictly just attracted to members of the same sex. Rather, most would really classify as bi-sexual. Even those who claim to be strictly homosexual have usually also admitted to being attracted to some member of the opposite sex sometime in their life.

To more or less of the same degree, even ppl who claim to be strictly heterosexual usually have had at least a few brief homosexual thoughts in their life. It may not be as intense as the desire to have sex with another member of the same sex (could be that you just find the person especially attractive, and just that), but it is there.

So the way I see it, as far as biology is concerned, most of us are born bi-sexual more or less along a spectrum scale of being either more inclined towards the opposite sex, or the same sex. Maybe there are a few of us that really are born exclusively hetereo or homo, but I really think that is the minority, if it exists at all.

I think this may also partially explain how some men could feel insecure enough to be really homo-phobic. They are uncomfortable because they realize that although they may consider themselves heterosexual at the moment, they could potentially develop an appreciation for the same sex as well. They may not conciously be aware of it, but I think the feelings of uneasiness associated with homophobia is closely related to it. But, back to the topic.

I do think that, more or less to a certain degree, ppl do have the choice whether or not to be hetero, or homosexual. Note I mentioned earlier that ppl are pre-disposed, NOT fated to become homo or hetero biologically. So, in a sense, I do believe they can eventually choose whether or not they prefer to shape their sexual lifestyle towards that or heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality.

Of course, I think the enviroment plays a large part. For example, if you're living in an enviroment where heterosexuality is encouraged for the most part and homosexuality is discouraged (say in the 1950's), then I think an otherwise middle of the road bisexual would shape his sexuality along the lines of what that society promotes. Even if a man were much more inclined towards homosexuality, that man I think would put more effort to deny his homosexual side and adapt to a society that demands heterosexuality and shuns homosexuality.

I think the same is true for some of the modern day openess and facination with homosexuality. I think there's a lot of suggestive statements out there, with things being said like "come out of the closet", or "it's ok to be gay", "gay curious?" and what not. Maybe some of it has to do with exclusive homosexuals accepting the fact of their sexual oreintation and embracing it. However, I feel a lot of it also (maybe not intentionally) serves to encourage otherwise middle of the road or more heterosexual individuals to experiment with their homosexual desires (however minor).

I'm not really interested in debating whether or not it's good or bad to be homosexual. However, according to my studies, I do think that biology (what ppl are born with), is not the ultimate factor in determining homosexual or heterosexual tendancies. It is important, but enviroment and personal choice i think also play a role. Ppl who usually like to attribute everything to biology are also usually the same ppl who don't like to take any responsibility for the choices they make in life
 

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Discussion Starter #12
ronaldmcdonald said:
I do think that, more or less to a certain degree, ppl do have the choice whether or not to be hetero, or homosexual. Note I mentioned earlier that ppl are pre-disposed, NOT fated to become homo or hetero biologically. So, in a sense, I do believe they can eventually choose whether or not they prefer to shape their sexual lifestyle towards that or heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. Basically what you're saying is... each morning when I wake up, I can voluntarily choose to be gay or not. While this "free choice" may be true... the psychological aspect of making it happen and accepting the decision is not. So bottom line is, it's really not a choice since you'd be going against what your "gut" feeling is on this... whether you're gay or straight. You'll either want to get into bed with one of the opposite sex or one of the same sex, or possibly both for some people.

You cannot shape or train a person to becoming gay or straight. People don't become gay if they grew up with others who are gay. Their brain won't allow it. If you ask a gay person how they know they're gay, they'll tell you that they "know it" and that they grew up knowing it. It's not that they woke up one day deciding to be gay and can go back to being straight.
 
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What About The Person That Because Of Some Traumatic Event Become Disenchanted With One Sex Or The Other, They Switch And Never Look Back.
I Personally Know A Few People That Have Done This. So Are You Saying, Are Playing Gay?
 

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I believe there are some people that are naturally attracted to other people of the same sex, and I believe there are others that have trained themselves from external influences in their environment, internal development of preferences, and flat out personal choice to be attracted to others of the same sex. There are probably a few "straight" people out there in homosexual relationships because it meets their relationship needs. It might work with a woman as well, but why throw away a perfectly good relationship to go hunting for another? I certainly don;t think it's clear cut as to whether it is nature or nurture, but I also don't understand why it pains so many people to accept it as a normal part of society. Gay guys and gals are probably not going to bring about the downfall of society - unless they all happen to be lawyers and politicians....

Cheers,

Carl III
 

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i think the easiest way to answer this question is as follows:

Outside of the human species, does homosexuality exist in other animals such as lions or bears?

Speaking scientifically and statistically and not meant to offend, if a person is born gay, then that person either has a disease, or a mutation to cause them to think that way.

Speaking socially and not meant to offend, if a person chooses to be gay then so be it. It is their choice.

Either way, i think we should be supportive and offer them the same legal protections as anybody else.
 
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Speaking scientifically and statistically and not meant to offend, if a person is born gay, then that person either has a disease, or a mutation to cause them to think that way.

Wow!
 

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OneGuyInCA said:
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. Basically what you're saying is... each morning when I wake up, I can voluntarily choose to be gay or not. While this "free choice" may be true... the psychological aspect of making it happen and accepting the decision is not. So bottom line is, it's really not a choice since you'd be going against what your "gut" feeling is on this... whether you're gay or straight. You'll either want to get into bed with one of the opposite sex or one of the same sex, or possibly both for some people.

You cannot shape or train a person to becoming gay or straight. People don't become gay if they grew up with others who are gay. Their brain won't allow it. If you ask a gay person how they know they're gay, they'll tell you that they "know it" and that they grew up knowing it. It's not that they woke up one day deciding to be gay and can go back to being straight.
I don't think one's sexual orientation could be so flexible as to consider oneself hetero one day and homo another day. I do think it's a lifestyle choice that can be gradually altered (say for instance a married man w/ kids who decides to come out of the closet some time in his life, or an otherwise hetero man who decides to experiement with the same sex and later prefers the company of men instead of women).

I don't think the pre-dispositions we are born with, are choices. However I can't say that pre-dispositions are necc the same as gut feelings. The way I see it, 'gut feeling' is a combination of predisposition, and enviromental shaping, and the choices you've made throughout your life to the pt your at in life. A person's gut feeling at one stage in their life, may not always be the same at a later stage on their life. Maybe for some ppl, their gut-feeling does not deviate much from their biological predisposition, but usually I think ppl are influenced by their enviroment, and the choices they make.

I think that while a gay man or hetero man may be very well aware which sex they are attracted to, whether or not they are also attracted to the other sex is not entirely certain. Quite possibly a appreciation for the other sex can be developed should they decide to do so.

The enviromental factors as I previously mentioned, don't alone determine one's eventual sexual orientation, but I do think they are an influencing factor. In otherwards, if a man who has a middle of the road (bi) sexual predisposition hangs out with mostly hetero guys, hot chicks, and a society that encouraged heterosexuality for the most part, then the individual in question isn't fated to turn out more hetero than homo, but I would think that there definetly is a higher likelihood that he would turn out much more hetereo (and prob claim and live his entire life happily as a heterosexual).

Yes, he may still harbor some homosexual feelings from his predisposition, but he is also happily indulging in his heterosexual desires in a society that reinforces such behavior. He may still have some desire for a homosexual relationship, but that doesn't nec mean he would have a diffucult time suppressing those thoughts. He may be too busy thinking about girls even to care about other guys. Perhaps later on in his life when he is in an enviroment that is more encouraging to homosexual behaviour, he may develop other preferences, or he may not.
 

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20vvillian said:
Speaking scientifically and statistically and not meant to offend, if a person is born gay, then that person either has a disease, or a mutation to cause them to think that way.

Wow!
That's a really interesting question actually. In psychology, homosexuality was once really considered a form of mental disease. Sometime in the 1960's they decided for some reason it somehow wasn't a disease. How could you really determine one way or another? It's really diff to say.

Lol, from the perspective of survival or species you could argue that it's either good or bad depending on whther you want to increase or decrease population.
 
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You mean back when they freely practiced frontal lobotomy, and yes two men are not going to reproduce, but unless the whole world turned gay and they outlawed artificial insemination theres no risk of us becoming extinct.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If your theory is correct, then we should expect to see more gays develop from people participating in team sports such as football, baseball, hockey, gymnastics, etc.. right? After all, they hang out with each other all the time, slap each other on the butt, etc... Hmmm..... Yea.

To be able to turn a straight man gay is like saying to a black person, if you hang around white people enough, your skin color will turn white. True you may be able to act and behave like a white person just like a straight man can act and behave like a gay person, but your skin color will never turn white just like a straight man (not bi!!) can not turn to being sexually attracted to another man.

That's also like saying you're attracted to tall slender beautiful white woman... but if you hang around short, fat, ugly, zip faced, disgusting minority woman enough, you'll learn to appreciate them, be attracted to them, and want to mate with them.

It is my belief that one's sexual preference or the gender that they're sexually attracted to does not change just because they hang out with gays everday. It's a natural instinct that can't be change from influence. You can go against it voluntarily but psychologically your mind won't agree with it.

Just like if you're in an open field with a 400lb lion running at you, wanting to make a meal out of you. Does your natural instinct tell you run to try and save your life? Absolutely. However, you can voluntarily choose to stay put and make yourself a dinner for the lion... but your brain will agree with it.
 
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