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Discussion Starter #1
Due to the difficultly of swapping ECU's with the Immo3 in the '02's and newer, It seems like a safe but expensive way to avoid hearing the dealer complain and keeping your warrenty intact. That's if it's as untracible as they claim.

Is anyone using APR Direct Port Programming instead of chipping their ECU? I'm thinking about this route and want to get some feed back first.
 

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The only way a dealer can tell that it's there is if you've got a boost guage and they take the car out for a spin and see that it's boosting above factory settings.

Aside from that, they'll have to check the code written onto the ECU to inspect if the parameters have been changed; how many techs at VW's dealership network do you think know how to do that?

It's certainly less of a hassle than having to pull the ECU out; specially if you've still got a warranty and visit the dealer with any frequency. All they'd have to do is look at the ECU box to know if it's been tampered with at all.

Plus, flashing takes all of maybe 20 mins. Way better than a couple days' worth of downtime, isn't it?
 

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oh yeah, and i forgot to mention the ability to switch between multiple programs as well as security lockout and valet functions.

and free updates!
 

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Another con is that the dealer can overwrite the APR software during software upgrades to the ECU accidentally.

It would mean another trip to APR for flashing again, done for free when you buy DPP once for the ECU.
 

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Another con is that an APR chip can quickly add up to twice the cost or more of a Wetteraurer chip, depending on what options you pick.

But Direct Port Programming is indeed an elegant solution!
 

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Well, sure, you can spend extra money, but you don't have to. Plus you have the option if you like, unlike most of the other chip tuners. Hardly a con that you have choice. (Though the "con" of it being $500 instead of $350 is valid.)

I'm going APR when it's "time". :D
 

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idale said:
(Though the "con" of it being $500 instead of $350 is valid.)
Wetteraurer 1.8t chip = $295, not $350

And if you want to revert to "stock" mode with APR, it's $648, not $500. Whereas with Wett, you can always swap back in your stock chip - for no additional cost.

So the real comparison is probably more like $295 vs. $648.

But I still think the Direct Port Programming and APR's multiple mode operations are clean, elegant solutions.

Another pro: APR offers a "try it out" option with the Direct Port Programming where you can get your car "chipped" before committing to a purchase. Can't do that with anyone else. (As if someone would decide to not chip their car after driving around chipped for a while!)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
With Direct Port Programming, if a dealer "accidentally" flashes your ECU and erases the programing, are you give a device to reinstall the programming or do you have to return to an APR installer to reinstall?

Basically what I'm asking, is the APR DPP a software or software/hardware chipping process?
 

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I got DPP'ed about a month ago. I love it. Like veryone else said, I like the clean install. No messing with opening the ECU. Just plug it in and program it. As far as comparisons, to get all of the same features (switching ablity, same performance, etc.) you would have to go with GIAC. The performance of all of the chips is about the same but (correct me if I'm wrong) but the APR and GIAC chips have a 10hp or so advantage over the others. Price of GIAC and APR is pretty much Identical (a dollar here or there). The other advantage to APR is that you switch thru the cruise control stalk. GIAC is switched thru a remote - one more thing to carry around.

And APR says the chip cannot be overwritten:
"All APR chip upgrades use encryption, which serve several purposes. First, it keeps prying eyes out of our software and prevents lesser companies from copying the chip and degrading the product. Secondly, the encryption prevents the dealer from flash programming the ECU. Also, all APR software is undetectable to a dealers VAG diagnostic tool."
But then again I've never had to test that.
 

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dj_aero said:
Basically what I'm asking, is the APR DPP a software or software/hardware chipping process?
Its strictly software. I think you can still send them the ECU if you want and they will solder a new one in but as long as you can find someone to do DPP, its much easier.
 

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Oh yeah... i forgot to mention that.

the free trials.

you get about 6 hours of drive time in "chipped" mode to see if you like it. after that, the car reverts to stock programming on its own, and you're free to decide what you want to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
And APR says the chip cannot be overwritten:
"All APR chip upgrades use encryption, which serve several purposes. First, it keeps prying eyes out of our software and prevents lesser companies from copying the chip and degrading the product. Secondly, the encryption prevents the dealer from flash programming the ECU. Also, all APR software is undetectable to a dealers VAG diagnostic tool."
But then again I've never had to test that.
Is that for hard chipping or DPP or both?
 

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I have WETT chips in both my Audi and Passat. Been to the dealer many times and they have VAG'd it everytime to check for codes, etc. They even told me my Passat was throwing some misfire codes and that I should have a fuel induction cleaning done. I don't know if they've detected the chip or not, I really don't care. I chipped it and I accept the risk. It's all about integrity.

Bottom line is the dealer will not go looking to see if your car's ECU has been reprogrammed or chipped unless something serious is going on with your car like a blown engine or turbo. If you really think you need a "selectable" program chip then by all means pay the extra $200 and get it. If not save your money or put it towards some other mods.
You can argue that GIAC is better or APR is better or WETT is better, but there all pretty much the same. It really comes down to customer service and what kinda of deal you can get.

That's my 2 cents.
 

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saejin said:
If you really think you need a "selectable" program chip then by all means pay the extra $200 and get it. If not save your money or put it towards some other mods.
You can argue that GIAC is better or APR is better or WETT is better, but there all pretty much the same. It really comes down to customer service and what kinda of deal you can get.

That's my 2 cents.
Exactly. There may be a few HP here or there, but they're all about the same. I like the ability to switch, but if you don't think you need it then don't get it. If mine wasn't brand new and under warranty, I may have considered something else. A lot also depends on what is close to you.
 

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dj_aero said:
....ECU's with the Immo3 in the '02's and newer...quote]

What does that refer to? Does removing the ECU on a 2002 (and later MYs) produce some sort of traceable problem?
 

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There are a bunch of GTI's running around with APR DPP. Good program. There is even a 20th testing a Beta of APR V-tune to adjust timing and boost similar to Revo SPS3. The fact that you don't have to open the ECU is a big plus. Less cahnce of frying your ECU and also buying another ECU and bothering with immobilizer codes.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
My question still is the same. How exactly how and by who is the DPP installed

Is it encrypted so it cannot be flashed?

How do I get the free updates/upgrades? Is it down loaded and istalled by the owner or installer?
 

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dj_aero said:
My question still is the same. How exactly how and by who is the DPP installed

Is it encrypted so it cannot be flashed?

How do I get the free updates/upgrades? Is it down loaded and istalled by the owner or installer?
APR's website explains things pretty well. www.goapr.com

The Direct Port Programing is ussually done by a local performance shop. You can check on the website for dealers near you. The guy that did mine works at an audi dealership here in town. He used to work for APR in Alabama but had to quit when he moved here. He does DPP on the side at the dealership. Thats besides the point. Check with APR for a local dealer. All you do is take the car in and have it programed while you wait. It takes about 20 minutes total.

According to APR the chip cannot be overwritten by the dealer. I'm not sure why some people claim it can be. I have heard people say APR's programing can be erased if the dealer flashes the ecu but I have NEVER heared of it happening. The guy that programed mine and everybody at APR says it cannot be done. My take: the dealer CANNOT erase the APR programing.

There aren't really any upgrades. APR does mention that new releases/versions/updates of the software may be released if there are problems (similar to microsoft issues patches and fixes for minor hiccups in windows). I haven't heard of any problems for the Passat software. I do know they were haveing an issue with some of the Jetta software. I believe it was the 03 jetta software. There was a cold start issue that may or may not have been APR software related. Either way, APR worked hard to find/fix the problem (i'm not sure what the final outcome was. For this you either go to the dealer that installed your software or you can do it yourself if you have purchesd the ecu explorer from APR.

EDIT:
Here is the "find a dealer" from APR's site - http://www.goapr.com/VW/dealer/index.html

There are two near in CA - one in Santa Clara and one in Irvine
 
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