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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everybody,
I am the owner of a new Passat (DeepBlack/Beige, Pkg2, Monster mats, DynaAudio, 17" Lemans) and have approx 2000 miles on it.

No complaints so far. The car handles and drives fine though I wish the braking distance was less.

I am leaning towards getting the car chipped and have decided to go with APR (for 93 Octane setting). I have never had a chipped car earlier so before taking the plunge, i have a few questions/concerns:

1. With 200 miles, has the engine broken in or do i need to put more miles? I have put approx 1300 miles on the freeway and rest is city driving.
2. Do i need to have a suspension/brake upgrade with the chip or is STOCK fine?
3. Reading the info about APR, their site mentions that it is programmable/encrypted so the dealer would not be able to detect it.
How far is it true?
4. Any other potential issues that it might have with the engine/turbo in the long run

Any personal experiences/issues related to your chipped car are welcome.

Thanks for reading

Steve
 

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sbihue said:
1. With 200 miles, has the engine broken in or do i need to put more miles? I have put approx 1300 miles on the freeway and rest is city driving.

There is much debate in the industry, oem and aftermarket, about motor break in. We chip our cars with less than a 100 miles but recommend to customers to wait for the first oil change. However, the first oil change can be done at 1000 miles.


2. Do i need to have a suspension/brake upgrade with the chip or is STOCK fine?

That's personal preference on your part. For most, the chip is the first and best mod!

3. Reading the info about APR, their site mentions that it is programmable/encrypted so the dealer would not be able to detect it.
How far is it true?

We go to great lengths to protect your personal privacy and our systems are completely undetectable to the dealer's diagnostic tool and won't interfere with their systems in any way.


4. Any other potential issues that it might have with the engine/turbo in the long run?

Alot of fun! We make sure that our engine recalibration in no way affects the longevity of any engine components. We collect info from the oem and oem suppliers and work within the recommended tolerance ranges.


Steve
Steve,

I hope this answers your questions for you and others. Please let me know if I can help further.

Thanks,

Keith/APR
 

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I've had my ECU flshed by APR at ~700 miles. I am at 4000 and love every minute of it. It really changes the personality of the car. My only problem is the lack of the ability to change back to stock. Why would I want to do that......when gas is really expensive and I'll be doing nothing but driving in traffic, who needs the extra juice. Otherwise, it is fun and worth it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
bool said:
I've had my ECU flshed by APR at ~700 miles. I am at 4000 and love every minute of it. It really changes the personality of the car. My only problem is the lack of the ability to change back to stock. Why would I want to do that......when gas is really expensive and I'll be doing nothing but driving in traffic, who needs the extra juice. Otherwise, it is fun and worth it.
If i understand correctly, APR uploads both the STOCk and MODDED FW on the ECU and one can switch between the two using cruise control.
However, if it CANNOT BE REVERTED TO STOCK without reflashing the stock binary back on the ECU (a visit to the APR dealer -- any $$$ ?), that could be a potential discovery problem for the modded firmware in the future.

considering this, i think REVO would be a better bet. As per REVO's documentation, they have a serial switch that can be used to upload the STOCK firmware when needed (such as before a service).

just my .02 cents
 

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This past Saturday I got the APR 93 octane program loaded on my '04 1.8T 4Motion (@ ~13,000 miles). Note I didn't say I got "chipped". The APR dealer uploaded the program through the OBD port - what APR calls "Direct Port". Price $500. For an additional $150, I got the ability to switch between the original stock program and the new APR program. As noted above, the switching is accomplished via the cruise control "set" switch. Let's me run lower octane fuel if I can't get 93 at some point. Works great! Love the results!

Edit after re-reading other posts => To be clear, you CAN switch back and forth between the OEM and APR programs IF you pay for the switching feature. Takes about 30 seconds.

I went with APR (although more expensive than some other offers) because I liked the idea of getting the programming thru the OBD port versus removing / replacing chips. Seems much "safer" to me to eliminate the possibility of bad solder joins, possibly "fried" chip, etc. Also, APR was the only tuner that had a dealer within 2.5 hours of my house!

Hope this helps!
 

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I have a question about switching between programs using the cruise control stock.

If a dealer has the savy and I am sure some do, can't they play with your cruise control stock to see if there is a program switch interface? Provided they have reason to believe that your car which might be in for warranty work and may have been altered from stock.

Is there a interface prompt that requires a password or some sort of personal initiation to get to the program switching interface section?

It just seems like a little bit of digging on the part of a mechanic doing warranty work might come up with a reason they won't warranty something because the just sat in the drivers seat, turned the car on and played with your cruise control stock. I do realize they would need to prove that the new software or chip was directly related to the warranty work.

Just asking. I have wondered this for some time.
 

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There's also a security lockout feature (might cost extra) so you have to enter a 4-digit code based on the number of times you push the buttons (and an exact sequence) to unlock before switching programs. This probably costs extra.
 

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shummer said:
There's also a security lockout feature (might cost extra) so you have to enter a 4-digit code based on the number of times you push the buttons (and an exact sequence) to unlock before switching programs. This probably costs extra.
Shummer,

You are correct re: the availability of the security code feature - which does cost extra (another $59).

Here's the APR Direct Port link:

http://goapr.com/VW/products/directport.html

and here's their "general" chip page with pricing (scroll way down):

http://goapr.com/VW/products/ecu_upgrade_passat18t.html

The prices shown for the various chip features are the same if you get a chip, or if you Direct Port.

As far as a VW tech playing around with someone's stalk; first, they have to think you're "chipped", then they have to guess that you have APR (vs Revo, GIAC, Wett, etc.), then they have to assume you're Direct Ported, and then they have to know how to test for APR-DP, assuming you didn't buy the security code feature. If they thought you were chipped, it would easier / quicker to just open the ECU and see if a new chip is there.

I don't know about the techs you've run into - and no disparaging the techs at my local dealer (or elsewhere) - but they really have little-to-no knowledge about aftermarket stuff - especially "esoteric" stuff like chips. I've asked the techs at my dealer about things like this, with little reaction. I've been told a couple times that they are trained - and expected by the dealer - to "do things by the numbers / book". Probably so if anything goes wrong VWoA can't come back at them.

Maybe the local guys just view their jobs as a job and go home at night, while others I'm sure, are really into VWs. I dunno. :crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Rochacha said:
Shummer,

You are correct re: the availability of the security code feature - which does cost extra (another $59).

Here's the APR Direct Port link:

http://goapr.com/VW/products/directport.html

and here's their "general" chip page with pricing (scroll way down):

http://goapr.com/VW/products/ecu_upgrade_passat18t.html

The prices shown for the various chip features are the same if you get a chip, or if you Direct Port.

As far as a VW tech playing around with someone's stalk; first, they have to think you're "chipped", then they have to guess that you have APR (vs Revo, GIAC, Wett, etc.), then they have to assume you're Direct Ported, and then they have to know how to test for APR-DP, assuming you didn't buy the security code feature. If they thought you were chipped, it would easier / quicker to just open the ECU and see if a new chip is there.

I don't know about the techs you've run into - and no disparaging the techs at my local dealer (or elsewhere) - but they really have little-to-no knowledge about aftermarket stuff - especially "esoteric" stuff like chips. I've asked the techs at my dealer about things like this, with little reaction. I've been told a couple times that they are trained - and expected by the dealer - to "do things by the numbers / book". Probably so if anything goes wrong VWoA can't come back at them.

Maybe the local guys just view their jobs as a job and go home at night, while others I'm sure, are really into VWs. I dunno. :crazy:

What i was trying to say is that in case of APR , you have BOTH the STOCK and MODDED firmware flashed on the ECU (NOT CHIPPED). Like some members have pointed out, it leads to a potential discovery of the modded ECU for a curious meachanic (you never know).

I think what the REVO site says is that the MODDED REVEo firmware REPLACES the STOCK firmware on the ECU. The STOCK firmware is backed up. They sell SPS switches which allows to UPLOAD the STOCK firmware when needed (such as before a dealer visit), thereby replacing the modded one. This would be a safe bet as any prying eyes would not be able to detect the modded firmware since it is simply not in the ECU.

May be i am wrong or did not read carefully enough. You can check it at
http://www.revotechnik.com/aboutRevo/news/fsi20.aspx

I dont think you need to OPEN the ECU with either APR or REVO. Both allow upload/download through the OBD
 

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I've had my 04 1.8t APR'd through my port for most of the time I've owned the car. I get better gas mileage with the program on then stock. The techs will never know you have APR's program unless you forget to change it back (via the cruise control) to stock. When you have the program installed ask for the lock out feature. It is a 4 digit code selected by you. You use the resume/ set buttons on the cruise control to accomplish this. they act like numbers depending on how many times they are depressed. The dealer can not know you have it by just looking into the computer. They have to know your code to even open it. I would definately be getting the APR program again when I buy my new Passat 2.0t. The horsepower increase and torque will blow you away. I think it quite cheap for a mod that adds that much power and is so seamless.
 

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As far as I know, switching is not available for some B6's. That is what I was told by APR in an e-mail. I have been waiting for a couple months now and it is still not available to me. They did say it was avilable for certain ECU numbers, but not others (maybe for manuals vs. tiptronics). If anyone hears from them otherwise, let me know.
 

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My concern is the fuel pump..will the stock be ok with the APR program? Also, I've heard about issues with tranny noise and bad motor mounts? Any comments on this? I would love to do APR too, but not at the expense of reliability.

Thanks!
 

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stay away from those meat heads at APR!!!! Go with Garrett!!!!


OK, just kidding about the meat head thing, I just love my GIAC chip!

and on a side note, my dealer is cool with modding, chipping included. In fact I was talking to one of the service managers a year or two ago about getting more power and the first words out of his mouth were "You need to get chipped!" I already was though..... Later he told me to take off my cat, do a fmic etc etc etc.

they are pretty cool where I shop......they even give me cost on a lot of stuff (like when my timing belt broke and I had to replace nearly all my internals) so I love 'em!
 
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