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A plan to resurrect my bent valved V6?

4313 Views 59 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  muttony
I started a thread about my misadventures with a broken cam chain tensioner on the passenger side. The result of the replacement of the CCT was that the car is misfiring on all passenger bank cylinders only. Drivers side is fine even though I changed the pads on that side (meaning I took the intake cam out and replaced it. It seems that the ultimate result of that was that I have some number of bent valves on the intake side of the passenger side bank. I have been dithering over the past week about whether I should try to fix it or just junk the car/donate it. I have a plan to fix it and I wanted to get people's opinion on what I might be missing from from the plan.

To start, A rebuilt head is out of the question. They cost anywhere from 500 – 1200 dollars as far as I can tell and that is without various gaskets and other parts that might be needed. If this car is to be fixed I'll need to do it myself. And it will need to be done relatively cheaply.

So the plan. I am assuming that the head is not warped or cracked. There is no reason to think it is as I did not suffer any overheating or broken chain or that type of catastrophic failure that would likely lead to that kind of damage. I tried to find used heads but they would only guarantee that the head was not warped and not cracked. There's no point buying a used head for $400 only to have to do the valves anyway.

The plan.
1) Take the front off car (in other words put it in the service position) but having removed the front bumper radiator etc.
2) Put car in TDC.
3) Remove Valve cover and verify timing is correct.
4) Rotate crank 30 degrees off tdc.
5) Mark passenger side bank's Timing chain's 16 rollers. They will not be exactly over the cam journal markings at this point, but I'll need to mark everything's place exactly.
6) Fasten the timing belt to the various pulleys not involved in the head to be removed and mark them. I was thinking of using the little fuel line clamps I have to physically attach the belt to the pulleys in the right places so that they don't move. I do not have a timing belt bar and don't know where I can get one.
7) Assuming I can adequately make the timing belt secure to the right places on the pulleys and on the other bank's cam, I could then unbolt the pulley from the passenger side exhaust cam. I understand that the pulley is not keyed and it should just come off once unbolted. It too, will need to be carefully marked for reassembly.
8) Remove everything connecting the head to the rest of the engine marking and photographing everything carefully for reassembly.
9) Remove the head bolts
10) remove the bolts from the exhaust manifold
11) remove the head
12) Mark each cam journal and lifter for reassembly
13) Photograph marked assembly for reassembly
14) One by one remove the each intake valve with a spring compressor
15) Replace Valve guides and valve stem seals
16) Manually lap the new valves using lapping compound and suction cup tool
17) Clean all lapping compound carefully to make sure it is removed.
18) Replace valve springs and keepers
19) move on to the next one.
20) When done do exhaust valves the same way
21) remove and smooth any sharp edges (from valves hitting)on the piston tops but leave in place otherwise.
22) Replace cams same way as they came out
23) Reassemble engine.

Parts needed:
(9) intake valves at $5.36 ea Rock Auto
(6) exhaust valves at 5.36 ea Rock Auto
Head Bolts set 50.95 Rock Auto
Gasket Kit includes Head, 2 exhaust, VCG and CCT gaskets 96.89 Rock Auto
Valve Stem Seals .95 ea/ 15.00 Rock Auto
Valve Guides 3.31 ea./49.65 Rock Auto
Valve Lapping Tool, Lapping Compound and Engine Assy Lube 20.35 Amazon.
Head Bolt Removal tool 9.56 Amazon
Total for job $325.80 plus shipping.


Tools Needed:
Spring Compressor
Valve Guide Remover
Head Bolt removal tool
Lapping Tool


Advice Needed:
a) Does this plan sound right?
b) What am I missing?
c) What chances of success?
d) Do I need to get the VW timing belt tool and camshaft pin (adds 50.00 plus shipping)
e) Where can I get a spring compressor and valve guide remover that will work with this head? What do I ask for at the Autozone rental counter?
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Simpler to just buy a good used head from someone like SWITCHES CONTROLS, COMPUTERS items in AUTOHAASPARTS store on eBay!

Mind you their prices have risen.
Last one I picked up was under 75K and cost about $175

Came with tensioner and camshafts.
Quick clean up and away you go.
I have serious questions about the quality of $5 valves. I'm also in the "buy a used head" camp.
Thanks V6er. ENGINE PARTS items in cylinder head store on eBay! doesn't have a ATQ RH head and even if he did prices starting at $260 (for a LH one). I haven't found a RH ATQ head on the internet except one on a craigslist in Milwaukee. I have looked into it.
His scotts. The only place on the internet I could find readily available used heads was the national junkyards search site and they wouldn't guarantee anything except no warpage and no cracks. I'd love to find a RH head for $175.00 all done and dusted, but I haven't seen anything close to that and I've been looking for about two weeks.
Car-part.com ??

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
Thanks wormybeech. That site is better than the other version I found that does the same thing, but it doesn't solve the problem because I don't know what I am getting for my $200.00 I don't know that the used part doesn't have bent valves, worn guides or anything else.
Is cruising the local pick-a-part an option? You can simply not buy anything that doesn't meet your standards. Even if you don't use the head itself, you can scavenge it for valves, which are going to be more trustworthy than $5 valves likely sourced from China. With luck the whole head will be good; you can tell a lot just by verifying the car went to the yard with the t-belt intact and tight and things look clean under the valve cover.
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Even if you don't use the head itself, you can scavenge it for valves, which are going to be more trustworthy than $5 valves likely sourced from China.
Valves, especially exhaust valves, are perhaps the most material-critical parts in your whole car. That $5 valve had to be made and shipped for around $2, and who knows what kind of reclaimed metal it came from. Maybe they melt railcar loads of old valves, but I'd feel better using authentic German parts here.
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Are the V6 valves sodium-filled like the 1.8T ones? I can't remember...
Are the V6 valves sodium-filled like the 1.8T ones? I can't remember...
The bentley would indicate that they are.
I checked my Bently this morning and I see nothing specifying sodium filled valves. I've read on forums that they are, but I don't see it in Bentley. Perhaps I do not know where to look. The cylinder head is located in section D15-2. No mention of sodium.

These valves are 37.50 each on 1stvwparts.com. For that, the car is going to the junkyard.
Hi sirwired.

The local pick a parts are few and far between. The closest to me is 1/2 hour away. There's 2-3 at that range but they're all in different directions (i.e. 1 is N, 1 is W and 1 is S) after those three it goes out to 1 hour away and the same problem.

Cruising the local junkyards isn't really an option.

I suspect the price difference is related to solid vs. sodium filled valves.
Clipping the TB to the pulleys doesn't really get you anything. The important thing is to have the cams aligned while the crank is at TDC. Don't forget to unload and pin the TB tensioner too.
These valves are 37.50 each on 1stvwparts.com. For that, the car is going to the junkyard.
The local pick a parts are few and far between. The closest to me is 1/2 hour away. There's 2-3 at that range but they're all in different directions (i.e. 1 is N, 1 is W and 1 is S) after those three it goes out to 1 hour away and the same problem.

Cruising the local junkyards isn't really an option.
Forgive me for saying so, but it really sounds like you're trying to justify not repairing the car. Compare driving 1/2 - 1 hour to the time you'd spend trying to rebuild the head yourself. Also, consider how foolish you'd feel if you put all that labor into the job using cheap parts, and it failed.

Be honest with yourself.
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Thanks scotts. You are actually right and I didn't mind your saying so. I am totally torn about whether to try to fix the car or get rid of it. And I veer from one side to the other day by day. I really like the car and I want to keep it, but I have such a hard time investing lots of money in it. It's third car and I don't really need it (it's for my teenager).

Truth is the first thought I had was simply to swap the head with a junked one, but I got talked out of it by 1) the cost, 2) the lack of any guarantee that a used one would work and 3) the cost of timing belt etc all the other stuff that's going to come due.

If I could keep it for less than $500.00 then I would, but if I have to spend more than that then I am going to end up eventually having to pay as much as the car is worth just to keep it going.

Will you answer me this question. If I were to go to the junk yards to look for a used head, what criteria would YOU have in picking one. I called a guy in NH yesterday who had one and he told me that if I bought one that I should have it magnafluxed and checked anyway.

I am not a mechanic by trade. I am just a fairly mechanically inclined person. I have confidence that I can swap the head without doing further damage to the car, but I don't have confidence in my ability to pick a good used head from a bad used head. That's why I feel more comfortable trying it rebuild it myself as opposed to just swapping one out. In other words I have seen videos and read up on how to do the head rebuild and I think I can do it, but the simple swap worries me that it will be a waste of time and money because I could end up in the same position I am in now with another head in the garage.
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If you are leery about putting a few hundred into the car to keep it on the road, it's time to let it go. B5's of this age are going to need not-cheap repairs or maint. every single year or so. (Suspension bits, tires, brakes, t-belt, flex pipe, CV boots, ABS module, whatever)

At this point in the life of most B5's, any book value they have is little more than the base value for having a running, inspected, and registered car that does not look like a hooptie-wagon; no repair will actually increase it's value past that point. That means its actual "worth" (to you, anyway) is: "How much will it cost me to replace my B5 with something I will like and trust more?" Speaking for myself, under the "devil that you know" principle, it would cost at least 4-5x the (pathetic) book value of my '04 1.8T M/T wagon (now with 153k) to buy a car I'd trust as much as the B5 I'm intimately familiar with.
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Thanks sirwired

Again, you are right, but you also point out the same thing I am struggling with. I actually have already done new shocks, brakes, flex pipe cv boots all within the last 4 years. What I forsee is t-belt, clutch, abs maybe, some suspension bearings/bushings (the car was starting to squeak when it went over bumps). I can take these things in dribs and drabs. But it is the devil I know.

Anyway, there's a cylinder head at a used parts place on the shelf for 100.00 I can get my money back for 30 days so maybe I'll take a punt.
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Will you answer me this question. If I were to go to the junk yards to look for a used head, what criteria would YOU have in picking one. I called a guy in NH yesterday who had one and he told me that if I bought one that I should have it magnafluxed and checked anyway.
I'd bring a magnifying glass, a stainless steel ruler, and a pint of gasoline. You may be able to detect gross warping by holding the edge of the ruler against the mating surface. You'll be looking for fine cracks around the valves with the glass. The gasoline is for an old trick I learned: With the head upside down and level (and valves closed), pour some gas into the cylinder crowns. If it leaks out fast enough to notice, the valves aren't seating.
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You can also bring a 16mm ratchet and physically turn the cam while the head is on it's side. Verify all the valves close properly after opening.

As for the replacement, it would be easier to borrow or rent a cam tool. You can mark the timing belt and count the teeth in the belt, but it is time consuming and easy to make a mistake. You can use zip-ties to hold the belt in place, they are easier to use and less likely to damage the belt.

You will need to remove the intake, but do not disconnect the fuel lines. Just flip the intake upside down into the area above the cabin filter. The fuel feed line has a tendency to leak
(in very cold conditions) if re-used.

You should replace all of the O-rings in the coolant pipes since they you will have them apart. They are cheap and you will have the system apart anyway. It will save you 6 hours of labor. Once the intake is out of the way, it's much easier to remove the exhaust bolts. Leave the exhaust manifold attached to the head, remove it after the head is removed from the engine.
here is the writeup on the coolant pipes: http://www.passatworld.com/forums/b...724-diy-v6-coolant-pipe-seal-replacement.html


Good luck, and if you get stuck on anything, send a PM.
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