[nicks_]

So, I was head down the highway at 40MPH, she shudders and engine cuts off. This was in LA on Sunday. Towed it back home to SD last night and tarted doing my research.

117K miles, timing belt at 97K, battery is good, fuel pump is good, relays are good, fuses are good. Checked cam pos sensors and both are good and their harnesses are both reading the appropriate values, no shorts there either. I'm at a loss of what to check besides the Camshaft Adjustment Bank 1: Malfunction. I don't know what or where that is and google hasn't helped much. Here's what I've got going on. Cheers.

Fault codes:

- 17927 - 17927/P1519/005401 - Ross-Tech Wiki

- 17746 - 17746/P1338/004920 - Ross-Tech Wiki

- 17800 - 17800/P1392/005010 - Ross-Tech Wiki

- 16684 - 16684/P0300/000768 - Ross-Tech Wiki

- 16685 - 16685/P0301/000769 - Ross-Tech Wiki

- 16687 - 16687/P0303/000771 - Ross-Tech Wiki

- 16686 - 16686/P0302/000770 - Ross-Tech Wiki

 

[PZ]

Sounds like the CCT or CCT pads failed on bank 1. Best to remove the valve cover on that side and take a look.

If you can turn the motor with a wrench, set it to TDC and then check the timing marks on the cams at the CCT.

 

[AndreasPassat]

I agree with PZ, all of this all at once on the same bank.
Sounds like the pad(s) on CCT came off and or the CCT has collapsed and not keeping the cam chain tight, which in turn will cause the intake cam to be out of "static" time.
If indeed the cam chain is loose, the intake cam will actually flop forward and backward per se as the cam lobes roll over the intake followers. This scenario will definitely cause the whole bank to misfire if the chain is slack enough.

 

[Tomvw]

I also agree with PZ.
Do NOT crank the engine again until this has been resolved, further damage would be likely.
I expect you already have a broken CCT pad, and some bent valves in bank 1. (US passenger side)

Also check the TB tensioner.

 

[muttony]

Read a couple of my latest threads. I had the exact same codes (p300, p301-303). It'll take you through the work up.

 

[nicks_]

How would I be able to tell if the pads were the problem or the whole CCT assembly? Thanks for the insight. I'm gonna be working on this slowly bc of my schedule, but I'll try to keep updates posted.

 

[nicks_]

I also agree with PZ.
Do NOT crank the engine again until this has been resolved, further damage would be likely.
I expect you already have a broken CCT pad, and some bent valves in bank 1. (US passenger side)

Also check the TB tensioner.

I don't plan on cranking anything until I've broke her down. I've noticed no one mentioned any thing electrical, Should I be checking anything else?

 

[nicks_]

Well shit.

Bad news. The tensioner pad was literally missing from under the chain. Plastic Pieces everywhere. See below. Where do I even start?


CCT Fucked - Album on Imgur

 

[ylwagon]

Yikes- and such a clean engine too. On the plus side, there must be a lot of good used V6 heads around by now. As my friend the mechanic used to say, "it's just bolts".

 

[muttony]

Read this http://www.passatworld.com/forums/v...sion/497481-cam-position-sensor-misfires.html thread, followed by this thread http://www.passatworld.com/forums/v.../502889-plan-resurrect-my-bent-valved-v6.html and you'll know exactly where you are. Yours looks lots worse than mine.

 

[soundguybob]

Looks like the chain broke, so it's pretty much certain that you've got bent valves. The pistons are usually OK when the timing goes on these V6's, but I have seen a valve break off and bust a hole through the top of the piston once. If you're comfortable wrenching, the removal and installation of a head is not extremely difficult on these - it's just fairly involved and time consuming.

 

[nicks_]

Yikes- and such a clean engine too. On the plus side, there must be a lot of good used V6 heads around by now. As my friend the mechanic used to say, "it's just bolts".

Yea... I'm pretty new to this, but if there's a book or diy I could follow outside of Haynes I'd like to give this a shot. I've it friends who know their way around an engine and I work on avionics in the navy so I'm used to following detailed instructions. Lol. Can you advise me what to look for?

 

[Tomvw]

You have a broken chain, a damaged CCT, and you can be pretty sure you have bent valves in bank 1.
There could be other bank 1 damage such as cracked head and damaged pistons.

The exhaust cam being jammed by the chain could have caused the TB to jump teeth, you should check bank 2 timing.
If the belt has lost timing, bank 2 valves etc could also be damaged. I don't think this is very likely but should be checked before repairing bank 1.

 

[AndreasPassat]

Ha, looks just like my 98 did a few years back.
That's pretty severe. And yeah what the hell is with that chain being on the wrong side of the sprocket on the exhaust cam? Sure looks like a broken chain. And that usually doesn't end good.
I would at this point try a pressure test in the cylinders. Not a compression test, but a pressure test. By applying air through an air fitting that screws into the spark plug hole.
This way you can tell if the valves are bent. If the cylinders hold pressure your valves are fine. If you hear air hissing out the intake or exhaust, well then my friend that's no good.

I told soundguybob about this and I'll tell you.

Blake over at carparts4sale.com has got loaded ATQ / AHA heads for cheap!
RH Cylinder Head & Cams Audi A4 A6 VW Passat 30v V6 ATQ AHA - 078 103 373 AH | CarParts4Sale, Inc.

 

[AndreasPassat]

Tomvw, good call on that possibility of the TB jumping teeth, or even possibly stripping the teeth of the belt.

 

[Hirnbeiss]

My condolences, but look on the bright side: this is a great oportunity to replace the heater hoses too.

 

[nicks_]

You have a broken chain, a damaged CCT, and you can be pretty sure you have bent valves in bank 1.
There could be other bank 1 damage such as cracked head and damaged pistons.

The exhaust cam being jammed by the chain could have caused the TB to jump teeth, you should check bank 2 timing.
If the belt has lost timing, bank 2 valves etc could also be damaged. I don't think this is very likely but should be checked before repairing bank 1.

I'm looking at parts now to replace them, and I'm waiting on an inspection camera from a friend. I'm gonna check the TB here soon, gotta get her into the service position. How can I check the timing on bank 2? I'm a noob to this stuff but I really can't afford a mech.

How can I inspect the valves? (The next reply says with an air compressor and spark plug adapter) but. I want to inspect the Pistons, the cam shafts, the valves, and anything else. Can I remove the cams and the retaining hardware? What can I remove to continue inspecting this? I can't find anything about removing the cams without messing up the timing.

I'm tempted to buy the Bentley unless you guys know another resource I could use.

 

[ylwagon]

The suggestion to pressure-test really only applies to bank 2, and you would have to either rotate the crank (assuming the TB is intact and timed correctly) or remove the cams so the valves are all closed. First step is to remove the TB covers and see what the situation is before anything else.

 

[AndreasPassat]

Adding on to what ylwagon said...
If you look at the center of the cam sprockets you'll see a diamond shape piece, these should both be in the same position on both sides of the engine.
On your car you'll also notice the holes on the diamond shaped piece, one of the holes is smaller than the other. So lets say the smaller of the two holes on the diamond shape piece is at 12 o'clock on one side of the engine it should be at 12 o'clock on the other side. At this point in time you can check the condition of the belt.

 

[Tomvw]

Adding on to what ylwagon said...
If you look at the center of the cam sprockets you'll see a diamond shape piece, these should both be in the same position on both sides of the engine.
On your car you'll also notice the holes on the diamond shaped piece, one of the holes is smaller than the other. So lets say the smaller of the two holes on the diamond shape piece is at 12 o'clock on one side of the engine it should be at 12 o'clock on the other side. At this point in time you can check the condition of the belt.

View attachment 66698

Please take more care when offering advice on critical systems.
When the small hole on one side is at 12 o'clock, the small hole on the other side should be at 6 o'clock.

The small hole on one side should always be at the same time as the large hole on the other side.