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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,
I hope someone here can please give me some advice on my 03 Passat glx 4Mo. I searched but can’t find this question asked…
The intake cam on bank 2 jumped a tooth due to a failed cct shoe. I have new shoes to install and tool 3366, and would like to reset the cam to determine if I have bent valves.
Trouble began with the starting the engine, flashing check engine light and stall. I did not attempt to restart but immediately pulled codes: 346 cam position sensor out of range, 300, 304, 305, 306 misfires bank 2.

I have the engine at t.d.s with the crank lock installed and the cam bar in place. Both exhaust cams line up with their corresponding notches. Bank 1 intake lines up with its notch.

I read/watched video instructions to remove the intake cam and cct to install new shoes. To remove the cct, it must be in its raised position and then compressed using tool 3366 to create chain slack. The problem is at tdc, bank 2 cct is in its lowest position and the chain is tight. How do I remove it?
Rotate the engine 180 deg. off tdc so the cct is raised for removal, But how then do I set the cams without notches visible? Is the CCt bad?

All the videos I found are V6 bank 1, or 1.8 turbos. Nothing that addresses these concerns.
Please advise if you can.
Thanks, Frank
 

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If you have the crank lock installed and the cam locking bar on you can still get the CCT out. Using the CCT compression tool, you compress the CCT (but not over compressed - more on this in a bit) this will allow slack in the chain and you can then remove the intake cam. Once the intake cam is out the CCT can easily be removed.

Exercise care as to not compress the CCT where it "bottoms out". When this happens the pistons can get wedged inside the bores and then they wont function properly when reinstalled.
 

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Based on the info provided, it is very likely that you have bent valves in bank 2.

CAM CHAIN TIMING 2.8 V6 (16 roller count)
The Ross Tech diagram for the V6 Bank 1 is not correct. The V6 Bank 1 is like the 1.8T. (NOT as shown in the diagram.)
See the images at the bottom of this page: 16730/P0346 - Ross-Tech Wiki
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for responding. The CCT is in its compressed position, and the chain is tight. It's not open as you describe. The CCT opens only off TDC, but then the cams are out of time. Second Pic is current intake position at TDC.BTW, Bank 1 is as you describe. Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper Musical instrument Rim Automotive tire Rim Gear Automotive wheel system Bicycle part
 

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Well now the problem is obvious. The plastic shoe is missing on the CCT. That in itself will change the cam angle by a pretty significant amount.
You are definitely going to need a new CCT for that bank. I'd be checking the other bank as well.
You're also going to have to drop the oil pan to get the pieces of plastic that are surely collected around the oil pick-up screen / tube on the oil pump.
I would NOT run this engine anymore until repairs are made.

Based on that angle of the intake cam, that is for sure why you're getting the misfire codes.
It's border line to the point of bent valves.
The CCT is junk anyways, so I would just pull both cams and the CCT out and then do a compressed air test into the cylinders to see if it holds any pressure.
That will determine the next course of action.


Here's what the CCT should look like.

103321
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Is the cct n.g. because it's down, when it should be up, Or because the shoe broke off? If the shoe, the CCT has only shallow grooves so I was hoping to install new shoes I have and reuse it.
Still puzzled on how to get the CCT out while its in down position and the chain is tight.
Thinking...rotate the engine 180 deg off TDC so CCT is in up position. Remove CCT and
both cams. Pressure test cylinders. If good,
Replace CCT shoes or replace CCT. Then rotate back to TDC to install CCT and cams on their marks and chain link count. Do-able?
 

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In my personal opinion you're over complicating this thing with CCT being up or down.
The CCT can be removed from whatever state it's in. That won't be an issue.

FYI
When a CCT is installed whether it be new or re-used, is in what I will call state of static limbo.
There's a coil spring inside the CCT that pushes equally on both the top and bottom side shoes.
That is in it's 'static state'. When you start the engine the oil pressure will pressurize the CCT and keep the chain tight.
The electronic solenoid on the CCT in conjunction with the oil pressure is what controls the up and down motion based what the needs of the engine are.

I don't know of anybody who has reused a CCT once the cam chain has worn grooves into it.

I'm going to say it,
This not the area to be cheap and apply a bush fix.
This is a mission critical part, along with all of the other components that are responsible for driving the cams (timing belt, timing belt tensioners, rollers).
Each one these parts individually are the only thing between a functioning system and complete catastrophic engine failure.

Take that for what it's worth.
 

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Normal static position for bank 1 CCT is up.
Normal static position for bank 2 CCT is down.
The above is true whether at TDC or 180 degrees from TDC (or anywhere else).
On bank 1, the CCT compression tool pushes the top shoe down.
On bank 2, the CCT compression tool pulls the bottom shoe up.
The procedure for replacing the bank 1 and bank 2 CCTs is basically the same.
Do not over tighten the compression tool, it will break and possibly damage the CCT.

You should replace the shoes on both CCTs. And be sure to only VW spec full synthetic oil.
You might get away with using your damaged CCT, but any burring would need to be removed, to allow for proper seating of the shoe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My earlier response was deleted?
Thank you for the advise. First will determine condition of the valves...then replace cct's on both banks...that is if the rain ever ends here in New york:giggle:
I hope to report back some good news!
 

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To remove the CCT on the driver's side, it helps to remove the bolts holding the rear timing belt cover to the head. There are 2 bolts at the water pump, those only need to be loose. Then the 2 or 3 bolts behind the cam pulley are removed. You will need to rotate the cam pulley slightly to reach one of the bolts. The bolts are all 10mm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the heads up on the t.b. cover!
I got everything loosened to find it blocking the cct as you describe. Thought I had to remove the t.b. to get to these bolts and that the cover must be removed. I'll try your recommendation!
 

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Any luck? It's not the easiest without service position, but I've done several like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I didn’t have a chance to look at it further. Hope to this week. I believe there are damaged Valves. With the intake cam was almost out, I noticed all the cam followers except the one closest to the firewall could be compressed by simply pushing down on them with my thumb. the last one, while smooth, took much more effort. you could feel the spring tension. Not sure what it means but the fact there is a difference can’t be good.
 

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When you get the intake cam out, all of the cam followers should be the same height if they're not you know something is up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I first want to say thank you guys for the responses and advise. This is a great forum.
I’ll take note to check the follower heights. I had it in service position not long ago for t.b. Install…the works including alum. thermostat housing. At that time, I checked cam positioning on bank 1 only since it needed a valve cover gasket on that side. Maybe could have avoided this had I looked at bank 2. Doh! The only prob I see not in service position is refrigerant lines close to the balancer pulley If the t.b. needs to come off.
Does the back t.b. cover need to be removed to get the cct out, or can the bolts be loosened with the sprocket in place and will it give enough room?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
An update… a leak down test confirmed damaged intake valves. The head removal was straight forward to find only the center intake valve damaged on each cylinder. I had the head rebuilt and is ready for pick up today. Gaskets and hoses are on their way to begin reassembly. both CCT’s and chains will be replaced too. I don’t want to mix new/old parts. Is there anything I should pay particular attention to on reassembly? I see some use assembly lube on reinstall of cam caps and gasket spray on cct gaskets, rtv or similar on half moon gaskets?
 

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Do you have brand new head bolts? Those are a MUST for re-assembly.
DO NOT use any RTV on the gaskets EXCEPT for where as pointed out in the Bentley Manual. I'm at work so I don't have access to that info at the moment, but I'm sure some other fine member will chime in and post a picture.
Use assembly lube (white Lithium grease - aka rebuilders grease) on the cam bearings and on the cam lobes.
Adhere to the assembly instructions pointed in the Bentley manual, verbatim.

Do you have a cam locking bar and crank pin? Gonna need something to get all of that static valve timing set correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yes new head bolts will be going in. I see the tightening procedure and sequence in the Bentley manual. Yes I have the bar and pin. I marked the crank & cover, then rotated about 45 deg before tdc for head, cct‘s install. Will go back to tdc and install the pin & bar to do the timing belt. Thanks for the other info.
side note… I found one intake cam follower to be stiff. The machine shop said it’s fine and simply filled with oil. If I choose, can I replace this one, or do I have to replace all 9?
The manual only says that after cam follower replacement, to have the engine sit a few hours before starting or risk damaging valves. Should the followers be soaked in oil or just let them fill on their own at start-up.
 

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You can replace just one or whatever ones need to be replaced.
When I rebuilt my wife's GLX V6 I replaced all 30 cam followers (lifters). That got expensive though. :oops:
In actuality, any time the cam(s) are removed the engine should sit for a minimum of 4 hours before cranking / turning the engine over.
The cam followers need time to compress to their static position so valve damage doesn't happen.
 
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