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1st off, thanks to Mike (V4VanGelder) for coming by and helping with the teardown on the car. He was in town for training and stopped by Saturday for a few hours.

Got a call from a customer wanting to know if I could work on his car after the timing belt failed. I went to see the car to confirm the diagnosis before it was towed to my house.

When I got there, I found out he had just finished changing the timing belt and had the car running while he buttoned up the front end. After a minute of running smooth, it started to make "a lot of noise", it stopped running before he could reach the key to turn it off. The car is an 04 Audi Allroad, 2.7T 6SP manual trans in perfect shape. The cams appeared to be in time with each other, but I could not see the crank mark. The crank would only turn 1/4 turn with a wrench before stopping.

Once in the garage, I found the timing belt off by 3 teeth on the lower pulley. I retimed the cams, but could only turn the engine 3/4 of a turn after that. I started the teardown last weekend. Got the driver's side head off and all looked good. I was a bit shocked as I don't know how 1 side would be good if the belt was that far off. :confused:

The 2nd head was stuck due to a stripped bolt on the exhaust manifold-turbo (stupid internal hex bolts!). Even with a torch, it would not come out. I had to get a 3" wheel on an angle grinder and cut if off (after breaking my chisel!). So much fun. :banghead:

In the meantime, I looked in the intake ports for bend valves. None seen, but there was a valve missing! After pulling the spark plug and using a flashlight, I could see the missing valve stuck in the piston along with some scoring of the cylinder wall. Got the head off yesterday (Saturday) and took some pics. It's not pretty.

My guess at this point is that "something" was dropped in the intake and got caught in the valve. The timing belt jumped when the engine stopped as there is no way it ran 3 teeth off without damaging all of the valves. No sign of the FOD (foreign object debris in airline speak), maybe it was detroyed, maybe it made it out the exhaust and is stuck in the turbo (will find out today when they come out). The timing belt is not damaged either.

Here is the missing valve along with a nice impact mark.



Here is where it bounce around before going through the bottom of the piston and getting wedged against the head:



Here is the hole in the piston and the scored cylinder wall. The top scoring is really light, but the bottom has a decent scrape that may doom the block:



Engine and trans almost ready to pull. They will come out together and then be pulled apart. It's far easier at this point:

 

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So what happens now? Are you responsible financially, is the customer? For example I understand it wasn't your fault, but random people would have a tendency to blame it on the mechanic.
 

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In reverse, but chained to a tree.
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So what happens now? Are you responsible financially, is the customer? For example I understand it wasn't your fault, but random people would have a tendency to blame it on the mechanic.
not in the least!
Paul didn't do the timing belt, the guy brought the car to paul after problems started...
basically, for this engine you HAVE to remove the intake manifold to operate on the timing belt. if you saw how COMPLEX the air path on this car is, you would understand...
then while that was off, the idea is that somehow something jumped on in. as valves are steel, and you can see how obliterated that is... if a small aluminum screw or nut got in there, the piece will never be found.

hey paul, were any bolts or screws missing when you began the teardown?

this really sucks as now instead of a simple $600 for the heads to be machined he's got to get the block done as well...


i wonder if .02" overbore would be enough to make it a 2.8 :poke:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
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So what happens now? Are you responsible financially, is the customer? For example I understand it wasn't your fault, but random people would have a tendency to blame it on the mechanic.
I have customers agree to a "liability waiver" for all timing belt and internal engine work. I don't make enough on this side work to pay for insurance or cover problems like this. I probably lose half of my potential business because of that, but that is fine with me.

Sadly, the customer is footing this bill. I got the call asking if I could repair the engine after the timing belt went out. Once I went to look at the car I found out the owner had just changed the belt.

I never found anything in the engine, turbo or exhaust to show why this happened. It may be a coincidence but it is pretty unusual. If the belt install was bad, all of the valves on that side would be bad as it obviously ran for a short time with the valve in the cylinder.

holy sh!T, Paul!!! Nice to see Mike VG was available to help.
He was a great help, especially today. I don't think I could have kept him away from it if I wanted too.

Here are today's pics:

Mike and I standing over the engine block. It's about half the size of the trans once the heads, turbos and the rest is pulled off.



The huge 6sp 4wd manual trans. Not as heavy as the tip, but not too far off:

 

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murdered out Jetta, er, B5 Passat
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Wow, looks like a ton o work, you were lucky to have a knowledgeable second hand. Keep up the good work V4!
 

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no joke. a second hand is a very good thing to have.

so, is this guy having you replace the clutch, while you're there?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
what the hell? is that a bell-housing spacer in that last pic below the trans?
Yep, nice thick spacer used on the 2.7T manual trans. Not sure if the 2.8l uses one too, it probably does. The 1.8T does not.

Clutch looks great, turbos are perfect, no shaft play. They are pretty small. Mike had a good laugh at the outlet size, it might be 1.25" at most.

Other than the dropped valve, the car is spotless inside and out.
 

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holy sh!T, Paul!!! Nice to see Mike VG was available to help.
X2 - Seems to me he's been helping out a lot of people lately. Are you coming to central Mass. when you're done there? I heard he's quite a photographer at 80 plus mph too. Keep up the good work gentlemen.
 
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