[New04project]

Hello, sorry this will be detailed and lengthy. Thanks to the OG's for all the help over the last year, many issues have been sorted. I am no mechanic so all input, abstract or precise, will be taken into consideration as I am at my diagnostics wits end. I have searched for this issue on many forums involving VW, Audi, BMW, Porche and any car with the ZF 5hp19.

04 Passat 4mo auto 1.8t b5.5 100k

This auto transmission has not functioned properly since I purchased it a year ago. I have VCDS (full version) and have scanned and monitored many things. No codes and all systems check out "OK". But there is definitely something funky.

I've replaced the AT fluid 4 times (no metal, just normal sludge on magnets), with 2 filters, and following the proper procedure. I've installed a Trans-go pressure regulation kit, checked solenoids resistance, cleaned MAF, cleaned throttle body, did adaptation, PCV overhaul, vac check, and a whole host of other things that needed to be done. Monitoring solenoids with VAG suggest they are doing what they are being told to do. Effectively doing it, I do not know?

Current conditions
Trans shifts to all gears, and everything appears to function (TIP and Auto) with no codes. Shifts to 3rd gear are always harsh regardless of TIP or Auto mode (only on upshifts). All downshifts are prefect. The TC lockup Is quite harsh in 2nd (tip mode) and 3rd (auto). 4th and 5th lockup are smooth as silk. "Regulated" lock up is harsh as well in 3rd (auto) and not in 4th and 5th. When accelerating after lockup it unlocks and relocks smoothly in 4th and 5th but is harsh in 3rd. There is no slipping that occurs outside of the threshold parameters.

After driving stop and go for over a hour, there will be a random abnormal "rear-ended/bumpy" shift into 2nd. After which the transmission operates flawlessly (TC lockup and 3rd shift) until the car is parked and cooled down. Then the whole process starts all over again. I have yet to drive the car, after sitting, where it shifts normally.

It's strange that the trans only acts up shifting to 3rd and locking up the TC. But with no codes and no way to recreate the stop and go bumpy 2nd gear shift that resolves the issue, I'm just driving it with its problems.

I've came to the conclusion that this might be a valve body, solenoid, sensor issue ,or a combination of all. Also that it may be a pressure issue within the transmission/valve body. All without tripping a code. I'm capable of removing the valve body and replacing it or the solenoids, but defiantly don't want to do it if its not going to solve anything. I've downloaded the ZF 5hp19 pamphlet and noticed there are certain solenoids for certain shifts. But this problem only seems to effect 3rd and TC lockup. There has been no signs of water intrusion to the TCM, but I'm not ruling that out. I'm stumped.

This is the last issue with this car that is standing in the way of me having 100% confidence in it. I'm frustrated and tired of fighting this trany and car. Any thoughts or input regardless of significance would be appreciated. If you have made it this far thank you. Happy wrenching.

 

[VAGguy]

You should also not overlook the various engine sensors as a cause for funky shifting. A bad or failing MAF can cause really harsh or erratic shifting, for instance.

 

[Tomvw]

The MAF would be my first check.

 

[Tobias]

I get your frustration. I read that back in August of last year, you were getting inconsistent results accelerating. Did you figure that out? B/C that could be trans related.

Great job documenting the problem and everything you have done. Not that I need to tell you, but it is nothing sensor related on the engine, otherwise it would present in more than just third. Its not the harness between the TCU and transmission, VCDS would have tossed up some real or sympathetic codes.

The big clunk sounds like a pressure release. I think you might have an issue with the valve body based on your troubleshooting steps. VCDS is good, but it can't monitor pressure on any of the clutches, or the condition of the clutch. I've used it to graph the solenoid activity when shifting gears. As you said, it will tell you the solenoids are doing what they are supposed to, but it can't tell you if a solenoid's valve is obstructed, it's seat is worn, or a seal is compromised and so on.

I feel your pain. Do you drop $600 on a valve body, or find a transmission and TCU at a pull your own yard and swap them out?

I did have the repair manual and the Tech Guide for the valve body in my library - I've attached them is you need or want them.

 

[Tomvw]

I get your frustration. I read that back in August of last year, you were getting inconsistent results accelerating. Did you figure that out? B/C that could be trans related.

Great job documenting the problem and everything you have done. Not that I need to tell you, but it is nothing sensor related on the engine, otherwise it would present in more than just third. Its not the harness between the TCU and transmission, VCDS would have tossed up some real or sympathetic codes.

The big clunk sounds like a pressure release. I think you might have an issue with the valve body based on your troubleshooting steps. VCDS is good, but it can't monitor pressure on any of the clutches, or the condition of the clutch. I've used it to graph the solenoid activity when shifting gears. As you said, it will tell you the solenoids are doing what they are supposed to, but it can't tell you if a solenoid's valve is obstructed, it's seat is worn, or a seal is compromised and so on.

I feel your pain. Do you drop $600 on a valve body, or find a transmission and TCU at a pull your own yard and swap them out?

I did have the repair manual and the Tech Guide for the valve body in my library - I've attached them is you need or want them.

Expressing false opinions as fact, doesn't make them true.

 

[Tobias]

Expressing false opinions as fact, doesn't make them true.

Read the OP's post and enlighten us. "checked solenoids resistance, cleaned MAF, cleaned throttle body"

 

[New04project]

Thank you guys for the input and ideas. At this point I'm almost ready to buy a remand valvebody and a MAF and just throw them at it and see what sticks. I'm not looking for perfection just progress.

Tobias- I have not resolved the inconsistent acceleration situation, but I have learned to drive with it. I had a blurb in my original post that I deleted cause I didn't want to muddy the water from this issue. It feels like its not getting the correct fuel ratio/pressure when I accelerate, then bam it gets the fuel and then decides to take off (i've tried a new fuel filter). I can live with that issue for the time being. If they may be related though, let me know. And thank you for the links to the recourses.

I am not in a living situation where I can perform a trany swap, but a valve body is certainly doable. It wouldn't be much more work than the Trans-go install. I just don't want to do all this work only to have it be something smaller I just overlooked.

The thing that stands out most to me is the fact that this occasionally resolves itself after certain driving conditions. Like something magically frees itself and works normally only to return to a nonfunctional state after a cooldown. Thank you guys this forum is a wealth of knowledge and without it this car would have been passed on to another for a song.

 

[Tobias]

The TB is involved with shifting. That's why I asked the question. TB sensor > ECU + TS Speed Sensor > TCU > ECU = ECU > TCU > Shift Good video on TBs by Humble Mechanic with VCDS overview

 

[New04project]

Interesting. I just watched that video 3 days ago. Thanks for sharing. I have suspected over the last year that it may be playing a part in all of this. But with no codes and the adaptation going smoothly, I figured it was fine. I even considered opening up the black box part of it and inspecting and cleaning it. I cleaned the MAF and the TB the same day and at the same time. This was less than a week after I acquired the car. Did not drive the car enough to remember if it had these symptoms prior to the cleaning. Although I do not remember thinking anything was amiss upon the test drive.

A couple of days ago I pulled up those measuring blocks and monitored the pedal to TB plate values. Nothing seemed to jump out at me. I am still thinking there is an issue relating to fuel or air mixture. But with no codes present the car thinks everything is operating normally. I've never drove another car of this vintage so I have no idea how much of this is "normal". Something is not quite right though. It would be nice if these two issues were related an it all wrapped up with a nice bow.

Another tidbit I forgot to mention. If the shift to 3rd and TC lockup occurs going down hill it is not nearly as harsh. Also if I release the accelerator in anticipation of the shift, same result. I drive around and let up on the throttle to improve shift feeling. Not sure this means much, but might indicate a pressure situation in the VB? Or a load calculation difference by the ECM and TCM?

 

[Tobias]

I have a b6 and a b7, both have sensors that tell the car it’s on a hill and at what angle it’s sitting. The ECU tells the TCU and the shift profile is adjusted. Do you have a vacuum gage? Best old school tool to troubleshoot engine issues. Insert it between the tb and the n80. Let me know if you need a link to a how to that explains what the readings mean.

 

[New04project]

I have a hand vac pump, but the gauge is pretty useless. it shows if something is holding vacuum or if it is bleeding off. That's about it. A link to what id be trying to accomplish would be great. When i was overhauling the pcv system I performed a boost leak test and everything checked out ok. What am I looking for, a faulty N80?

The backed off throttle or hill shifting thing has peaked my interest. Do you know if the pressure inside the VB is adjusted based on throttle input? If so it would suggest that the 3rd and TC lock shift was being commanded to increase pressure for some reason. I'm way out of my league trying to diagnose with feelings and conjecture. Thanks

 

[PZ]

Have you checked the fuel trims on your car? It would quickly rule out an air/fuel issue. The hand vacuum pump is still quite useful. You can check every part of the system that is protected by a check valve, none of those are tested during a boost leak test. I would also check the compression as it can also cause the low power acceleration issues (low exhaust output to the turbo).
I don't know enough to say the trans problem is the valve body, but the fact it all gets better after the car is operated for an hour makes me suspect it is. A bad seal may be causing the issue and once it gets hot enough, it expands enough to seal properly and engage the 3rd gear and lockup. It's possible that it's a seal inside the trans too, but valve body issues are much more common unless the trans has been run low on fluid.

 

[Tobias]

vacuum can tell you a ton about valves, rings, head gaskets, etc. Things that involve the engine’s proper function, and in turn influence the transmission.

so I don’t know the ZF well enough to dive into what the ECU is telling the trans to do on a hill. I know the Asin 09G Gen 2. There are so few in-depth write ups on the ZF. I looked. on the 09, when in Tip or S mode, the TC is locked to give the car a sportier feel. If the 3rd gear shift issue Is not evedent in these modes, I’d might replace the solenoid that commends the TC lockup.

 

[New04project]

Thank you for that video. I will purchase on of those gauges tonight. Hoping its not rings, springs, or valve seats. When I first purchased this car it idled like crap, and though the help of some dedicated people on here, most problems have been solved. After going through the pcv system, boost leak, and a host of things that where done with the intake manifold off, I am certain there are no leaks or issues with anything on the driver side vacuum system. Have not done anything to the airbox side. My fuel trims are defiantly within the accepted parameters. +- 2 or there about. So I guess that rules out any sort of fuel air situation.

Yeah I've done some reading about this issue on various forums, it always ends up in the same spot. No where. No follow ups and no detail. Many related posts are about the feeling of another shift into 3rd. I wrote one of them a year ago when I didn't know the basic functions of these transmissions. Seems like a life time ago. PZ was kind enough to tell me this is a normal function.

I can preplace the solenoid that is responsible for variable shift pressure but the VB has to come out to get to it. At that point a remand VB will be the way to go. Or just live with it till she craps out. If this, the transmission and the acceleration issue are related and due to a catastrophic condition, That will be the end. Lets hope she last long enough to wear out the new tires i purchased 8 months ago. Thank you guys

 

[wagtail]

Hello, sorry this will be detailed and lengthy. Thanks to the OG's for all the help over the last year, many issues have been sorted. I am no mechanic so all input, abstract or precise, will be taken into consideration as I am at my diagnostics wits end. I have searched for this issue on many forums involving VW, Audi, BMW, Porche and any car with the ZF 5hp19.

04 Passat 4mo auto 1.8t b5.5 100k

This auto transmission has not functioned properly since I purchased it a year ago. I have VCDS (full version) and have scanned and monitored many things. No codes and all systems check out "OK". But there is definitely something funky.

I've replaced the AT fluid 4 times (no metal, just normal sludge on magnets), with 2 filters, and following the proper procedure. I've installed a Trans-go pressure regulation kit, checked solenoids resistance, cleaned MAF, cleaned throttle body, did adaptation, PCV overhaul, vac check, and a whole host of other things that needed to be done. Monitoring solenoids with VAG suggest they are doing what they are being told to do. Effectively doing it, I do not know?

Current conditions
Trans shifts to all gears, and everything appears to function (TIP and Auto) with no codes. Shifts to 3rd gear are always harsh regardless of TIP or Auto mode (only on upshifts). All downshifts are prefect. The TC lockup Is quite harsh in 2nd (tip mode) and 3rd (auto). 4th and 5th lockup are smooth as silk. "Regulated" lock up is harsh as well in 3rd (auto) and not in 4th and 5th. When accelerating after lockup it unlocks and relocks smoothly in 4th and 5th but is harsh in 3rd. There is no slipping that occurs outside of the threshold parameters.

After driving stop and go for over a hour, there will be a random abnormal "rear-ended/bumpy" shift into 2nd. After which the transmission operates flawlessly (TC lockup and 3rd shift) until the car is parked and cooled down. Then the whole process starts all over again. I have yet to drive the car, after sitting, where it shifts normally.

It's strange that the trans only acts up shifting to 3rd and locking up the TC. But with no codes and no way to recreate the stop and go bumpy 2nd gear shift that resolves the issue, I'm just driving it with its problems.

I've came to the conclusion that this might be a valve body, solenoid, sensor issue ,or a combination of all. Also that it may be a pressure issue within the transmission/valve body. All without tripping a code. I'm capable of removing the valve body and replacing it or the solenoids, but defiantly don't want to do it if its not going to solve anything. I've downloaded the ZF 5hp19 pamphlet and noticed there are certain solenoids for certain shifts. But this problem only seems to effect 3rd and TC lockup. There has been no signs of water intrusion to the TCM, but I'm not ruling that out. I'm stumped.

This is the last issue with this car that is standing in the way of me having 100% confidence in it. I'm frustrated and tired of fighting this trany and car. Any thoughts or input regardless of significance would be appreciated. If you have made it this far thank you. Happy wrenching.

I don't really know where my problems with my 2003 Passat Turbo Wagon (B 5.5?) fits into this discussion, but here is some info. I have had hard downshifts, from third to second gear, for over 100,000 miles (210 K total on this car).
I tried multiple ATF (partial and full) drain and replace, and nothing helps. The hard downshifts are infrequent, but on some days it is more prevalent. No codes ever show up. I was told by a VW mechanic the tranny was shot, to get rid of the car, but that was over 100K ago, and the car mostly functions correctly. This has been, mostly, a good car.
Recently someone posted a start-up sequence (ignition key half rotated, dash lights on, engine off, slow depression of accelerator, hold to floor for 10 seconds, slow release of accelerator pedal, start car) to re-set the transmission. Oddly, this does stop the jarring downshifting, and lasts for entire day, but the car soon returns to hard downshift.

 

[Tobias]

You reset the transmission's adaption map by removing power from the TCU. You can unplug the TCU for an hour, or disconnect the battery - I suggest at least four hours. Overnight if you can. This will force the car's ECU to readapt the emissions, and possible the long term fuel trims. Have your radio theft code handy (if it has one). It will take some time for the transmission to relearn and adapt to its current mechnical state and your driving style. The 09G has a series of steps that can be taken to advance the relearn. I have no idea if your ZF has the same ability by design. Expect the shifts to be a little off for a bit.

 

[New04project]

I've disconnected the battery on multiple occasions and even ziptied the cables together over night. All shifts were definitely funky for the relearn period. I installed an aftermarket stereo before I knew there was a factory amp. Caused a lot of audio issues. PITA..

I received my vacuum gauge yesterday evening. I'll be checking the health of this engine shortly.🤞Hopefully before the Superbowl but perhaps not. I'll report back with the findings. Thanks for the video, I had not considered this being an actual engine issue. If the finding are neutral Im not sure what direction I'll go next. Thanks

 

[New04project]

So just following up, I hooked the vac gauge up and all the readings, per the video, seemed perfectly fine. Good news my car is not going to the scrap heap. Yet..

My next thought is buying a used valve body and refurbishing it myself. After all the websites, videos, and manuals I've gone through, I'm confident I can do it. If I can find the correct parts. Sounds like many people buy the dampers, check balls, gasket, solenoids, and say f the orifices'. I will be disassembling the whole thing and going cleaning everything.

I can get a "refurbished" one from amazon shipped to my door in 2 days for 200. I'm pretty sure they just washed the outside. Total unknown. With only one review on amazon, that said it was refurbished in china and it showed up dirty. A regular used one on eBay is like 200-300 plus shipping. Should I be worried about the one from amazon if I'm pulling it apart and cleaning it anyway?

I can't afford to ship it off to have it professionally done. Like Level 10 or anything. I also can't have my car out of commission for 2 weeks. So a used one that I go through is the option. A lot of the BMWs have a 5hp19 in them, many forums suggested that the separator plate gasket deteriorated over time and pressure bleeds off or increases due to leaks. This could very well be my issue.

It appears that the ZF 5hp19fl/fla both bolt up and work. A lot of the ones sold on the internet don't mention they are compatible with VW. They all mention the Audi, BMW and Porche. I know the BMWs have two holes on the top instead of one. Even the one on amazon does not mention the VW. But says its the 5hp19 for the 01V and it has one hole on top. Which I'm 90% sure is in my transmission. Do any of you guys know without a shadow of a doubt what VB is in a 2004 1.8 4mothion? Unfortunately, after I installed the Transgo piston into the lower front valve body I deleted all my identifying photos. Does anyone know if anyone has a VB laying around, for sale? Id rather give a person money rather that amazon.

Just realized the title is 0V1...wow musta been tired Thanks for reading. Cheers

 

[New04project]

So these are the parts I'm thinking about getting to overhaul a VB. Any thoughts on these parts? I'm willing to rebuild one to ensure everything is right.

ZF5HP19FL Valve Body Oring Kit

Welcome to Cobra Transmission, based in Sebring, Florida! We are Mercedes Benz and BMW Transfer Case Specialists, and your best source for transmission parts, both automatic and manual, transfer case parts, transmission tools and differential parts. Get the transmission parts you need for any...

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ZF5HP19FL Automatic Transmission Valve Body Orifice Seal Kit

Welcome to Cobra Transmission, based in Sebring, Florida! We are Mercedes Benz and BMW Transfer Case Specialists, and your best source for transmission parts, both automatic and manual, transfer case parts, transmission tools and differential parts. Get the transmission parts you need for any...

cobratransmission.com

ZF5HP19FL Gasket - Valve Body

Welcome to Cobra Transmission, based in Sebring, Florida! We are Mercedes Benz and BMW Transfer Case Specialists, and your best source for transmission parts, both automatic and manual, transfer case parts, transmission tools and differential parts. Get the transmission parts you need for any...

cobratransmission.com

5HP19 01V Transmission Valve Body With Solenoids - Amazon.com https://www.amazon.com/5HP19-Remanufactured-Transmission-Valve-Solenoids/dp/B0989LKBLR

 

[ylwagon]

I don't have anything to add at this point, but I admire your tenacity. My '05 Audi A4 V-6 has a 5HP19 (AWD) with almost 280K miles. It basically works well, although the TC lockup is iffy, a common thing on these due to a seal internal to the torque converter. I also, very occasionally, feel a "rear-ended/bumpy" as you called it, usually when lightly applying the brakes in the 40 MPH range. Not during a downshift, but more like the transmission started to downshift, then abruptly said 'forget it'. Passengers will say "what was that"?