B5.5 awm p0411

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  • 1 Post By cchief22
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Thread: B5.5 awm p0411

  1. #1
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    B5.5 awm p0411

    This just started popping up. Looked up the code and seems to be the secondary air pump, either the pump itself or the lines. I located the pump, just seems really tight to get to it and the lines with the bumper on. Is their a way yo get some room to pull the bump if needed or am I pulling the bumper to diagnosis this?

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  3. #2
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    little backround......the pump comes on when temp is approx. between 39f and 90f ???,regardless , in cooler/winter climates the pump sets dormant for sometimes month's at a time if a car that is not garaged. The pumps tend to seize and or crud up. So the first warm day ,kapoooie..? Not sure what triggers the code,maybe the O2 sensor when it knows the pump should be on and or combi valve not working.Remains on for50 to 60 seconds, it may even come on again briefly if O2 sensor not satisfied. To check make sure temp is 45f......better 50f, pop cover off ECM and check 40 amp fuse inside, back screw on ECM cover easily accessed by removing thumbnail size "hidden" plug in windshield valence panel. There is a plug , to check motor, unplug and hotwire ,brown is ground . To remove easiest way is service position ,but you can remove with a little.....O.K. a lot of fanaggling with fender liner pulled back. Service position is intimidating first time around, but if do for a TB do both. Nothing serious if SAIP inactive other than CEL Got a medium priced one out of NJ,let me know and will try to locate source. 3 years and still quiet.
    axenstar likes this.

  4. #3
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    I don't know what it takes to replace the pump but you should be able to diagnose it without going into service position.

    Is the pump running? You should be able to hear it on start up under the conditions cchief22 mentioned. If you're a bit hard of hearing (like me), start the car, let it run for a few seconds then turn it off. You should be able to hear the pump winding down for a second or two after the engine quits and it's easier to hear without the added engine noise.

    If the pump is running the problem isn't electrical and must be in the air lines. There is a vacuum line to the combi valve, the combi valve itself and then the pipes/hoses into and out of the SAIP that can all break or leak. All those should be accessible without service position.

    I would check how much access to the pump you can get by removing the plastic wheel well liner before going into service position if you do need to access the pump, but if the pump is running it doesn't need to come out.

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  6. #4
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    I've bought the pump like 5 months ago but haven't been able to replace it due to the extreme tight space from top. I plan to change the serpentine belt when weather gets a bit warmer so I can crawl under the car. Hopefully I can access it from underneath. Nothing is really easy on these cars.

  7. #5
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    I know on the B5 the pump can be removed from below with just the belly pan off. Run an output test on VCDS for the relay and the pump. If it does not run, check the pump by putting 12v to it and see if it works. If it does, check the lines as they often crack at the elbow above the turbo and at the plastic from the pump to the metal pipe to the elbow. Vacuum check the combi to see if it holds vacuum. You may need to pull the combi if all else works and see if it (and the head) is clogged with carbon.

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  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emry View Post
    I've bought the pump like 5 months ago but haven't been able to replace it due to the extreme tight space from top. I plan to change the serpentine belt when weather gets a bit warmer so I can crawl under the car. Hopefully I can access it from underneath. Nothing is really easy on these cars.
    Correction: The one I was referring is actually the diverter valve. Anywayzzz, this one is also difficult to reach from the top of the engine.

  10. #8
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    Thanks for the feedback. Didn't realize there was a test for it on VCDS so maybe I'll try that tonight.

  11. #9
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    So when I tried it with VCDS for the output test I definitely heard it cycling. I'll try to work my hands in there this weekend to see if I can check the tubes for issues.

  12. #10
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    check your combi-valve ,if it is not opening all is for not, easiest way is to check (while you have tubes off) is to remove the 3- 6mm screws holding its adapter/mount to head, caution is there is a thin metal seal between it and head
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  13. #11
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    The test that triggers P0411 is pretty thorough. The SAIP runs for 60 or 100 seconds after a cold start. Then it runs again for a few seconds to test, I believe when the engine is at idle.

    The ECM looks for the pre-cat O2 sensor output to increase significantly during that test run. So, the SAIP has to run, the combi valve has to open, and the SAIP air has to get to the O2 sensor.

    So, things to check:
    • Vacuum line to combi valve (2 on the V6)
    • Combi valve (they often carbon up)
    • SAIP runs and blows well
    • Hoses from SAIP to hard pipe not leaking/damaged
    • SAIP relay (it's undersized and the contacts burn up; it works poorly and/or sticks "on" before it dies outright)

    A couple of the items above you've probably ruled out, but I listed them for completeness.

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    Yes, it should run only at idle. Mine rarely came on as I was rarely at idle on my commute. There is not much traffic at 1am and I only had 2 traffic lights to make left turns at. I never really felt it on the V6/Tip as it was still pretty smooth, but the 1.8T was much rougher when it ran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    I know on the B5 the pump can be removed from below with just the belly pan off. Run an output test on VCDS for the relay and the pump. If it does not run, check the pump by putting 12v to it and see if it works. If it does, check the lines as they often crack at the elbow above the turbo and at the plastic from the pump to the metal pipe to the elbow. Vacuum check the combi to see if it holds vacuum. You may need to pull the combi if all else works and see if it (and the head) is clogged with carbon.
    My 98 1.8t doesn’t have a saip.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FrescoGreen01.5 View Post
    The test that triggers P0411 is pretty thorough. The SAIP runs for 60 or 100 seconds after a cold start. Then it runs again for a few seconds to test, I believe when the engine is at idle.

    The ECM looks for the pre-cat O2 sensor output to increase significantly during that test run. So, the SAIP has to run, the combi valve has to open, and the SAIP air has to get to the O2 sensor.

    So, things to check:

    • Vacuum line to combi valve (2 on the V6)
    • Combi valve (they often carbon up)
    • SAIP runs and blows well
    • Hoses from SAIP to hard pipe not leaking/damaged
    • SAIP relay (it's undersized and the contacts burn up; it works poorly and/or sticks "on" before it dies outright)


    A couple of the items above you've probably ruled out, but I listed they for completeness.
    Thanks for this. Hadn't really had time to checked under the hood until just now. Found a broken vacuum line right at the combi valve so fixed that. Cleared the code and will watch it the next couple of days.

  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by axenstar View Post
    My 98 1.8t doesn’t have a saip.


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    I think they started in the 2000 model years for the 1.8T.
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  18. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by my1stturbo View Post
    Thanks for this. Hadn't really had time to checked under the hood until just now. Found a broken vacuum line right at the combi valve so fixed that. Cleared the code and will watch it the next couple of days.
    That's good news!

    This code will actually clear itself the next time it passes the test, a few minutes after a cold start (for those without their own code reader).

  19. #17
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    Yea figured it would clear itself if that was the cause. Now that I think about it, makes some sense. I changed the crank sensor a couple of days before getting the code so guessing I broke the line when I tried to remove the original sensor from the factory wiring bundles and rerunning the new one. The line is pretty brittle so will get a replacement line this week, but for now cut it back until I found some flexible hose and slipped it on.

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