Lowering rear suspension

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  1. #1
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    Lowering rear suspension

    Hey guys

    I am able to make some coil overs for the front suspension on my car, but the rear springs are not on the shocks...

    How do you guys lower your cars in the rear other than spending $300 on them? I can make up coil-overs for the front for $80.

    Thanks,
    Elliott

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  3. #2
    I'm just itching to be Banned NEWMAN'SOWN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElliottG View Post
    Hey guys

    I am able to make some coil overs for the front suspension on my car, but the rear springs are not on the shocks...

    How do you guys lower your cars in the rear other than spending $300 on them? I can make up coil-overs for the front for $80.

    Thanks,
    Elliott
    What?!? How do you make coilovers? And what point would there be in only having the front be adjustable? You lost me on this one.

  4. #3
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    Cut the springs Elliot. You seem like the type to do something daring and dramatic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBayou View Post
    Cut the springs Elliot. You seem like the type to do something daring and dramatic.
    As long as by "daring and dramatic" you mean a life threatening/car endangering mod.

  7. #5
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    I run cut springs on my coilovers I'm bold. And they are....different. Not meant for high speeds or really intense handling, just for being REALLY low.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEWMAN'SOWN View Post
    What?!? How do you make coilovers? And what point would there be in only having the front be adjustable? You lost me on this one.
    It takes some fabrication but fairly easy for the fronts. There is no point in only having the front adjustable that's the reason why I made this thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by NEWMAN'SOWN View Post
    As long as by "daring and dramatic" you mean a life threatening/car endangering mod.
    Yea...My dad put his springs in the oven and squished them...works fine.

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBayou View Post
    Cut the springs Elliot. You seem like the type to do something daring and dramatic.
    x2

  10. #8
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    Yea I just can't roll around with them at that height all the time where I live. How do you guys adjust the camber etc after you drop the car? I thought the camber could only be adjusted so much...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ElliottG View Post
    Yea I just can't roll around with them at that height all the time where I live. How do you guys adjust the camber etc after you drop the car? I thought the camber could only be adjusted so much...
    Using adjustable Upper Control Arms or an alignment which shifts the sub-frame of the car.

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Swami View Post
    Using adjustable Upper Control Arms or an alignment which shifts the sub-frame of the car.
    I see...so does anyone have any answers to my original question? I need some way to lower the rear end of the car and still make it look right with my coilovers in front...

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElliottG View Post
    I see...so does anyone have any answers to my original question? I need some way to lower the rear end of the car and still make it look right with my coilovers in front...
    First, how do you plan on MAKING coilovers for the front?
    Second, what do you want to know about the rear? If you want adjustability, get coilovers, but you seem to know how to make them for the front, so make them for the rear.

    Your question really makes very little sense...you seem to know how to fabricate coilovers for the front, yet have no grasp on how the rear suspension operates? Its a separate shock and spring, the adjuster is under the spring, same as it is ON the shock for the front, just imagine no shock running through...

    Here is a picture for you:



    Explain exactly what you are getting yourself into and then we can help, unless you are actually heating or cutting your springs in which case I probably wont respond anymore for fear of perpetuating stupidity

  14. #12
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    If you're just trying to drop the rear end you can either cut the rear springs down or heat them. Not sure if there are aftermarket short springs for these.

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    OK, making coilovers for the front involves using AFCO or some other inexpensive American made dirt track threaded sleeve and spring perch. These come in various diameters and are a nice anodized blue, are available from Summit or any other number of suppliers for cost about 120$ for the pair. I have a Fiero lowered 1.5" all around on stock springs this way. I would use the stock springs and just lower the ride height to get the desired look. The ID of the sleeve may not match the OD of the shock but that's what I use my South Bend lathe for, to make a spacer sleeve from 6061T6 aluminum. Also I would make up an adapter spring perch to mate the AFCO perch to the stock spring. I have no fear of bottoming out the shocks as I only want a moderate aesthetic drop of an inch to an inch and a half and these B5's have jeep-like ride heights anyway.

    I was just having a problem understanding how the lowering on the rear would work, and now I understand from seeing the lowering kit photo you've provided that the spring is quite a bit shorter than stock and the adjustment is done with the spacer provided in the kit to essentially lengthen the very short spring to the desired ride height. Admittedly I will have to give the rear setup a little more thought although I have not ruled out heating and squishing though. This is a pretty accepted method, see Fred Puhn's book "How to Make Your car Handle".








  16. #14
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    I don't mean to be negative, but you may want to take this review of the book you mentioned into consideration. I think for the time and money required to pull something like this off, you are better off buying a used coilover system or an ST suspension. GL with your project.

    By Mike Blaszczak (Mercer Island, WA, USA) - See all my reviews
    (REAL NAME)

    I bought this book based mostly on its review score average. I'm very disappointed in my purchase.
    The book has two major flaws.

    First, it's horribly outdated. The copyright date is 1981, and the I have the 32nd printing; but it seems like the book was never revised since its publication. I began amusing myself by guessing which companies and suppliers mentioned in the book were no longer in business, and finding which products were no longer manufactured.

    The book mentions some specific measurements and values, but discusses no car newer than 1979 or 1980. Some tables (such as the list of wheel bolt patterns) don't mention a car newer than 1975! While the hard statistics and tables which discuss specific models might be interesting to someone doing restorations or who is a vintage racer, they're of no use to anyone who's racing modern cars. Even if an older model of your car is listed, it's probably been redesigned enough to make dimensions (if not the advice itself) obsolete.

    There are some innovations that the book doesn't even mention. For example, the section on tires doesn't discuss metric tire sizes (where the section width and aspect ratio are explicitly given, like 255-50R15) and instead includes tables that show the depricated tire size codes (where the section width is designated by a letter, as B50-15).

    The book includes between zero and little advice on modern suspension tuning techniques. There's no mention of corner-balancing and cross-weighting in the book. The section on pyrometer use for diagnosing a car's handling is less than half a page long and includes a couple of flaws. One of them is suggesting that the "ideal" setting results in equal temperatures across the surface of the tire; modern directional tires are built to let the inside edge to more work, so the tire will run hotter towards the inside.

    Most of these issues are forgivable in a book that's old. But they're somewhat compounded by the author's shallow treatment of other handling issues. There are impressive graphs and some simple formulae throughout, but the shallow treatment of the book is too tightly applied to the outdated parts and designs. You can read this book and learn about ride height and center of gravity, but the explanation is tied to double-link suspensions. How can you apply the author's advice to your modern car, with its MacPhereson strut system, or an independent suspension?

    In some areas, the tuning advice is laughable. The book says that "the method for arriving at the best shock setting is a matter of trial-and-error". The author suggests setting the bump and rebound of shock absorbers to "the softest settings". Then, "drive the car and note the amount of wheel hop over the bumps ... increasing the bump setting until wheel hop is reduced to a minimum." And that's where the advice ends. How can a driver measure wheel hop? Should the driver really leave the rebound setting at its softest possible setting? If so, then what's the point of using a double-adjustable shock? What about using bump and rebound to cure mid-corner and corner-exit handling problems?

    I think that it's easy to find more modern books on suspension tuning, and to get better advice for your car's modifications. This book is inexpensive, and might earn a place on your reference shelf just because it's half the price of some other books on the same subject. And someone resotring an older car might find the dated information useful (though little advice contained here is appropriate for the drag racer) as might someone who is restoring an older car. But the book isn't interesting for a modern road-course racer or street tuner.

  17. #15
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    Thanks newman'sown, but just to clarify, the book was only cited as a reference with respect to its one page on spring shortening, nothing else.

    Thanks

    Elliott

  18. #16
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    I'm surprised more people don't do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanLegend View Post
    I'm surprised more people don't do this.
    So am I considering it's a very cheap alternative to buying expensive coilovers and these give the same effect...I guess it's because people don't really have the skill (machining etc) or tools to do it...

  20. #18
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    Is there a reason you need adjustability? Why not just pick up some H&R or Neuspeed or Eibach springs and throw those on there. If you are really planning using stock shocks for coilovers, that wouldnt handle much worse. Find a used set for around $100-150 and have your moderate drop without the time and hassle of fabrication...

  21. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollininstyle2004 View Post
    Is there a reason you need adjustability? Why not just pick up some H&R or Neuspeed or Eibach springs and throw those on there. If you are really planning using stock shocks for coilovers, that wouldnt handle much worse. Find a used set for around $100-150 and have your moderate drop without the time and hassle of fabrication...
    I live in the snow belt so yes I would like some adjustability. I'm not really looking for any handling improvement...just lowering the car.

    I was looking at these springs for the back (which also have to come with the fonts). They are FK so I'm guessing they are ok I have seen a bunch of other people buy them. They are a pretty good price for all 4 so I'm thinking of getting them.

    The only problem is I don't know which ones to get:

    http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...nsion/Springs/

    There are two on that page and one of them drops the car just one distance and the other set (for the same price? ) drops the car lower in the front and less in the back..

    I don't know which one is better...I was thinking the second set because then I can have a little rake in the car's stance. But I don't get why they sell two sets...is it because some people don't want rake?

    And I was just looking at another thread for the "Eibach pro kit" and was wondering why there was such a price difference between FK and Eibach...is it just quality and rep? Or is there something better about the Eibachs? Better drop?

    Thanks again

  22. #20
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    Yea, the second set is just a more aggressive drop. Not sure why they are not called different things as they are clearly different springs. They have different FK part numbers too. The second set will put you pretty low though. How much of a drop are you looking for? Truthfully a modest drop will still be fine during snow season.

    Eibach pro kit is a reputable setup, so is FK though. FK always seems to make great stuff at a cheaper price point. You really cant go wrong with any of them. Eibach, H&R, Neuspeed, FK, etc.

  23. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollininstyle2004 View Post
    Yea, the second set is just a more aggressive drop. Not sure why they are not called different things as they are clearly different springs. They have different FK part numbers too. The second set will put you pretty low though. How much of a drop are you looking for? Truthfully a modest drop will still be fine during snow season.

    Eibach pro kit is a reputable setup, so is FK though. FK always seems to make great stuff at a cheaper price point. You really cant go wrong with any of them. Eibach, H&R, Neuspeed, FK, etc.
    Thanks for the help! I'm not looking for anything crazy just something better than what I have now. I think going with the FK springs in the back & front with my home-made adjustable coilovers will work just fine, what do you think?

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