B5.5 Passat 4Mo 2.8L - Help ABS Light on, Cruise WORKS, no other lights, no OBD codes

  1. Welcome to VW Passat Forums : Volkswagen Passat Forum – General discussion forum for Volkswagen Passat

    Welcome to VW Passat Forums : Volkswagen Passat Forum - a website dedicated to all things Volkswagen Passat.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join VW Passat Forums : Volkswagen Passat Forum today!
     
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 42
  1. #1
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123

    B5.5 Passat 4Mo 2.8L - Help ABS Light - UPDATED

    So I have done a lot to this adopted car in the last three weeks and she is running very well.

    Done so far:
    VCGs
    Plugs
    Purge Valve
    PVC Check Valve
    Fixed broken vacuum hoses
    Camshaft position sensor
    ECT sensor
    2x1 O2 sensor
    Cleaned PCV hoses
    Heater core reverse flush (now it has HEAT!!!!)


    All the I/M readiness tests are good to go. No OBD/DTC codes that my knockoff reader can pull.

    I need to replace the rusted out horns and broken liftgate actuator.

    BUT she was activating the ABS every time you hit the brakes. So I figure, lets clean all the ABS sensors and solve that problem.....That took a long time because given the age of the car (2002, 125k) and where its lived (CO and VT), the senors were pretty much welded in. It took a lot (5 hours) of wiggling, breakfree, silikroil, cursing, etc to get them out and cleaned. Anti-seize applied to sides before they were put back.

    This was done with the battery still connected (no reason other than I just hadn't disconnected it).
    There were no lights or codes when I decided to tackle the annoying brake issue.

    Fired her up and ABS light is on. No codes. Cruise works. ABS still kicks on as soon as you brake.

    only thing I found was that maybe her brake fluid reservoir was low, which it was.
    I topped it off and made sure that little float thingie is floating.....Still ABS light is on (I had pulled the fuse for it while i messed with fluid) on restart.
    ABS still kicks on immediately.
    Pads look good (it does have the pad sensors, I assume its the pad senors) on the front.

    Would love some help as I am outta thoughts on how to trace down the issue without having to replace EVERY sensor and/or ring or the ABS module.

    Thanks again all.
    Last edited by ar393; 03-17-2019 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Forgot a couple things I fixed to list

  2. Remove Advertisements
    VW Passat Forum
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    a possibilty with all the said detritus you have described, (same here in N.E. OH.) the tone ring which is (from memory) mounted on the drive axle,cv shaft , could have a bunch of crap wedged/floating in and around it. pull your sensors out and look down in hole and visually examine tone ring, (car off/transmission in neutral) while turning axle, also with a 4 mo. (not familiar with rear set-up) but probably has sensors back there.,others can help you there, pleading ignorance....

  4. #3
    PZ
    PZ is offline
    Redline
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Grapevine TX. 01 4M
    Age
    56
    Posts
    25,826
    What scanner are you using? Not all will scan the whole ABS system. Does the ABS activate at all speeds when braking or just when coming to a stop? If it's just while coming to a stop, the sensors may be too far away from the tone ring on the axle. Too close will also cause ABS activation, but you can usually hear the rubbing sensors.

  5. Remove Advertisements
    VW Passat Forum
    Advertisements
     

  6. #4
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    So the scanner is some POS Bluetooth elm Chinese clone.

    Using torque on Android.

    Yeah there are 4 abs/speed sensors. 2 pad sensors in the front (didn't touch them). Don't recall seeing a second sensor on the back for pads.

    99% sure it's all speeds, not just stopping, but I barely use my brakes to control my speed, only when needed for turns / stopping or some idiot who doesn't know how to drive is in front of me (who the eff brakes going uphill?).

    I don't recall hearing anything other than the rotor shield (must have bent it a bit while trying to get the rear right sensor out) and that was bent back immediately and didn't hear it again.

    Maybe one night this week I will go over there and pull the sensors again and shoot cleaner into the hole while spinning the rotor. Should I shoot some air in there to blow anything out?

    The two front sensors showed some tiny sign of "contact", but I have no frame of reference. I will take pictures when I pull them out again.

    Edit: so not sure if this could be any factor or not but I feel I should mention it, I used some permatex(?) 81343 anti seize lube on the sides of the sensors putting them back in. Could that be an issue? I can get that off and use some 22058 dielectric grease instead. I don't have anything else.

    Is there a spec of how far the gap the oring on the front covers should be?

    So not to thread jack myself, and I haven't been able to test it yet, but it seems to have a no start/no crank when cold.

    I'm going to clean engine to chassis ground when I get the nose up to check the rings, because it shows a lot of oxidation.

    I have cleaned the battery to chassis ground. I checked the ground behind the coolant reservoir, checked the pair grounds on the a pillar, and the ground coming from the ccm. All looked perfect. The wire from the ccm was bent funny so I took the nut off and moved the wire so the ground didn't have such a hard kink right at the connection of the wire and o terminal (I don't know the technical term).

    Do I need to find and check the ground of the starter?

    Also I have read here and there but haven't found (yet) a 100% answer, but it could also be the ignition switch (the thing that actually makes the contact when you turn the key in the lock cylinder). I don't understand how cold weather would effect this. Thoughts?

    /thread jack
    Last edited by ar393; 03-05-2019 at 05:33 PM.

  7. #5
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    look in there with light first ,should be able to see it ,no need to spray , then just use air hose to blow it out as you rotate,no need to put anything on to hold them in,(silicone or permatex) the stainless "shield" has intrinsic bends in the "cage" to keep them in, push them as far in as they go then twist back out ever so slightly ,the thickness of anindex card and you are ready to go.

  8. #6
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    the starter body itself is the ground ,there is a little braided woven shunt wire (1/2" long)that goes from the starter solenoid (mounted to starter) to the actual starter motor itself) they notoriouly deteriate in crappy climates giving intermittent service.......does anything sound like it is "clicking" around where the starter is when you try it in cold weather... what year, and mileage? thanks in advance

  9. #7
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    the starter body itself is the ground ,there is a little braided woven shunt wire (1/2" long)that goes from the starter solenoid (mounted to starter) to the actual starter motor itself) they notoriouly deteriate in crappy climates giving intermittent service.......does anything sound like it is "clicking" around where the starter is when you try it in cold weather... what year, and mileage? thanks in advance
    2002 125k B5.5 4motion wagon (born on 05/2001).

    So it used to have tons of issues starting because of the blown VCGs (So much oil in the wells and the the plugs/plug threads) as well as the shot ECT sensor, but it would always crank. Now when it's cold (I think the issue only happens when she has been off for a while, like overnight, in really cold weather), she doesn't even crank and there is one click only (hunt for red october, one ping only).

    My thoughts of why it happens when the engine is really cold, is that some moisture freezes up and reduces the amount of ground with either the starter or the chassis ground. I attempted to heat the chassis connection with a hair dryer for a while but it didn't work when i tried it. so i tried to heat the ignition switch, i tried it, and nothing. Then my friend came over to bring me back to her house where my truck was at (I had taken the VW home), and I was like "why don't you give it a shot since its your car" and boomed it turned over and started no problem.

    So I don't know now if the issue is that ground or the ignition switch....doh. I am having her try to start it at her house tomorrow morning after its sat for 36 hours in 10 degree weather and see what happens. I may take the starter switch out and try to directly connect the contacts and see if it starts like it should, and the should help me figure out if its that switch or not. But I don't have a garage, the car isn't at my house anyways and it has effin sucked a lot doing work on the car in -7 to 15 degree weather. Only one of the 6 days was it above 30 that I was working on it after fixing the slew of issues it came with (see list above) and it had no problems starting that day.

    This not starting when cold is new and different than the issues it was first having because of the shot ECT sensor.

  10. #8
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    no need to put anything on to hold them in
    Permatex anti-seize lube is what I put on the sides, not to keep them in but to get them in and be able to get them back out again.

    I also was going to try to hook up my multimeter to the sensors and spin the rotors (or tires depending on how i'm feeling) and see if it registers any voltage.

    I wish I had the cash to buy a high(er) end scanner

  11. #9
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    get ross tech lite (free) for dianostic software,as to permatex, (was thinking of gasket maker), yes never sieze is a good idea,just not enough to collect crap, you will not see any voltage when you spin, best bet is to look inside , one thing you can do with multimeter is check the ohms relative to each other (fronts) and obviously should be the same, from what you describe in my opinion the tone ring is comprimised. Pita but you can slide both sensors out (beyond sensing distance, like 1/4") and drive , you will get a fault obviously , however when you brake should be even and consistent,with no pulsation.

  12. #10
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    feel you cold, 9° here

  13. #11
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    ignition switches do go bad on these cars, relatively easy fix there are two relays I think????? aux. relay panel #11 and #12 that can be temperamental with cold and moisture, can be removed (do not mix them up) disassembled and cleaned

  14. #12
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    ignition switches do go bad on these cars, relatively easy fix there are two relays I think????? aux. relay panel #11 and #12 that can be temperamental with cold and moisture, can be removed (do not mix them up) disassembled and cleaned
    oh I was more thinking of pulling the left end of the key cylinder on the column and replacing this. not going into the relays.

    I had a video from the humble mechanic linked here but it seems I can only link one video per post.

    A reason I think this might be an issue is that is because for a year and change this car was used with the ECT sensor problem (as well as everything else) so in cold weather it was cranked like 20+ times and held until it warmed up enough for the ECT to send the right signal and the car to get the right fuel and turn over. So I'm thinking its worn the f&*k out, maybe?

    I have no problem going and pulling a couple relays or a switch (or two) from the scrap yard ( I have a slew of other things I want to get - Liftgate actuator, horns, some interior parts, the list is decent). I was thinking of ordering the ignition switch anyways since its just ten bucks, but I would hate to order it and then not need it.

  15. #13
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    get ross tech lite (free) for dianostic software
    Does that work with the chinese knock off ELM327 bluetooth readers?

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    as to permatex, (was thinking of gasket maker), yes never sieze is a good idea,just not enough to collect crap,
    yeah no worries. I barely put any on and most was pushed off as the sensors went back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    you will not see any voltage when you spin, best bet is to look inside , one thing you can do with multimeter is check the ohms relative to each other (fronts) and obviously should be the same, from what you describe in my opinion the tone ring is comprimised.
    Copy, I will try that.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    Pita but you can slide both sensors out (beyond sensing distance, like 1/4") and drive , you will get a fault obviously , however when you brake should be even and consistent,with no pulsation.
    Would unplugging (but securing and covering the ends of the connections) the sensors do the same thing in terms of testing for pulsation?
    Then plug them back in one by one and test? at least I could then come up with which sensor or ring is the shot one?

  16. #14
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    you can slide both sensors out (beyond sensing distance, like 1/4") and drive , you will get a fault obviously , however when you brake should be even and consistent,with no pulsation.
    I got a pair in back too (and also what I assume are brake pad wear sensors on the front)

  17. #15
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    unplugging is a good idea also, the connections for the sensors are in the wheel well,you have to remove a grommet and pull them out to disconnect and to electrically the first test for front ones is look inside, as to switch in column, personally I would pull valence panel (couple "hidden" screws, one in sunglasses pocket)to relay chassis first one you will see is what the call the 13 position auxilliary relay panel, last two bottom relays are the starter circuit , what I have done in past is pull one out with caution remove its cover, check with 12 volt source that it works and plug back in, do the other one same way,this way you do not get them mixed up........then turn key that will reveal where problem is if they do not actuate ,could be P/D/N switch or ignition switch and go from there, as to ignition switch use OEM , rest do not last ,as to Ross Tech, laptop windows 10 is what I use

  18. #16
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    personally I would pull valence panel (couple "hidden" screws, one in sunglasses pocket)to relay chassis first one you will see is what the call the 13 position auxilliary relay panel, last two bottom relays are the starter circuit , what I have done in past is pull one out with caution remove its cover, check with 12 volt source that it works and plug back in, do the other one same way,this way you do not get them mixed up........then turn key that will reveal where problem is if they do not actuate ,could be P/D/N switch or ignition switch and go from there, as to ignition switch use OEM , rest do not last ,as to Ross Tech, laptop windows 10 is what I use
    Yeah I've pulled the knee bolster (four Philips head screws) trying to figure out why the seat motors and horns werent working:
    - seat motors were fine, they were just rusted in place, some brake free and sili-kroil and they are much better (not perfect). To confirm it wasn't electrical, I had to get not to the 13 position panel, but to the 8 position panel BEHIND it!
    - horns, well they were fine electrically, just that over 50% of each one has rusted away

    using the car's battery and a multimeter work for testing?

    Do not think its the P/D/N because I tried shifting in and out multiple times, starting in N or P, etc and nothing changed.

    I will see what I might be able to figure out over the next chance I get to visit the patient, but unlikely until sunday or monday.

    I will plan on grabbing relays and an ignition switch or two from the scrap yard on Monday.

  19. #17
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    unplugging is a good idea also
    Could I also just pull the ABS fuse for testing to see if she brakes smoothly?

  20. #18
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    Quote Originally Posted by ar393 View Post
    Could I also just pull the ABS fuse for testing to see if she brakes smoothly?
    do not know, makes sense though, as to P/N/D ,will look at Bentley tngt. do you have a Bentley? Have a 2001.5 ,B5.5, and had same intermittant starting issue ,summer time , replaced starter switch, good for about 6 monthes, then OEM one and the OEM relays, if you ever had one of these relays apart there is a lot going on inside.

  21. #19
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    do not know, makes sense though, as to P/N/D ,will look at Bentley tngt. do you have a Bentley?
    Negative, I've found some stuff via google and links here and there. Nothing like the full 3700 page service manual I found for my Titan. All the Nissan books seem to be pretty easy to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    Have a 2001.5 ,B5.5, and had same intermittant starting issue ,summer time , replaced starter switch, good for about 6 monthes, then OEM one and the OEM relays
    Since fixing the slew of issues and it being down to this starting issue (and the ABS light) it did not start for me twice. It started for the owner fine each time (first was about a day and change later when she got a chance to try it, second was maybe 30 minutes after I had tried it), but each time I tried, it was bitter effin cold (minus single digits) outside. Her first attempt after my first fail was a sunny day above 30 degrees. Her attempt after my second fail, I had heated the steering column with a hair dryer....)

    My second fail and hair dryer was on Tuesday night.
    When we got it back to her house we put it next door in her grandmothers (unheated) garage.
    Inside the garage on Wednesday afternoon she tried it (engine temp 24F, left side of steering column 25F, using a fluke non-contact thermometer), instant start.
    I asked her to take it outside, this morning she tried it (engine temp 6F, left side of steering column 23F, same thermometer), instant start.
    I asked her to leave the windows open a bit today, and to try it again tomorrow morning where hopefully the steering column will be about 10 degrees and see what happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    if you ever had one of these relays apart there is a lot going on inside.
    Nope, if I grab some spares via the scrap yard I will poke my head into one.

  22. #20
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    double posted for some reason

  23. #21
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    ignition switches do go bad on these cars, relatively easy fix there are two relays I think????? aux. relay panel #11 and #12 that can be temperamental with cold and moisture, can be removed (do not mix them up) disassembled and cleaned
    So from this https://www.autogenius.info/volkswag...e-box-diagram/ :
    Volkswagen Passat B5 FL – fuse box – auxiliary relay panel
    Relay Description
    1 Coolant Fan Control (FC)‐A/C Relay (373)
    2 Sun-Roof Relay (79)
    3 A/C Clutch Relay (267), A/C Clutch Relay (384)
    4 Daytime Running Lights Change‐Over Relay (173)
    5 Taxi Alarm Relay, High Beam Headlight Relay, Emergency Flasher Relay
    6 Selector Lever Light Relay
    7 Fog Light Relay (381)
    8 Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (451), Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (452)
    9 Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (451), Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (452)
    10 Brake Booster Relay (373)
    11 Taxi Alarm Relay Emergency Flasher Relay (200)
    12 Dual Horn Relay (53) Taxi Alarm Relay
    13 Park/Neutral Position (PNP) Relay (175), Starting Interlock Relay‐Clutch Position (53)

    I know you said you weren't sure which ones you think I need to replace for the starting issue...so that's the list I can find.

    On that same site, the eighthold panel behind the thirteenhold panel:
    Relays:
    1 Free
    2 Free
    3 Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay 80 W (373)
    4 Free
    5 First Speed Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay (373)
    6 Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay (373)
    7 Relay for ABS with ESP (373)
    8 Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay (370)


    Fuses Ampere rating [A]
    ABS Hydraulic Pump Fuse 30
    Power Window Fuse 30
    Coolant Fan Fuse 30/40/60
    Coolant Fan Fuse 5
    ABS Hydraulic Pump Fuse 30 /50
    Power Seat Circuit Breaker ‐ Passenger’s Seat 30
    Power Seat Circuit Breaker ‐ Driver’s Seat 30
    Alarm System with Anti‐Theft warning system ‐Telematics 30
    Alarm System with Anti‐Theft warning system 15

    I can't imagine that the pump fuses are shot given the pump works way more than i want it to....but do you think the relay in bold above might be an issue? I am not an electrical engineer in any way so I am not sure how that might effect the system or the light. I will go do some ready on car relays.

  24. #22
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    when you put the brake on.... and it pulsates if indeed is your opinion,(feels like ) what I believe is happening is there is crap on tone ring that sensor "see" giving false reading too few or too many pulses, ABS thinks the wheel has lost traction and starts its corrective action, not saying for sure this is it in your case but would blow out and visually inspect just to rule out this possibility,worth the easy "looksie" as to relays VW refers to the 13 slot relay panel as the "auxilliary relay panel" and the 8 slot one as the "central relay panel" just for future reference so if I get pic of panel we are on same page I know somewhere in the site's archive search engine there is an illustrated photo of relays with labeling, regards , the "heating" to start is weird, I am thinking possibly of the brushes in the starter itself

  25. #23
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    when you put the brake on.... and it pulsates if indeed is your opinion,(feels like ) what I believe is happening is there is crap on tone ring that sensor "see" giving false reading too few or too many pulses, ABS thinks the wheel has lost traction and starts its corrective action, not saying for sure this is it in your case but would blow out and visually inspect just to rule out this possibility,worth the easy "looksie"
    I am going to get there tonight and do blow out all four rings after I do a drive with the ABS fuse pulled.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    as to relays VW refers to the 13 slot relay panel as the "auxilliary relay panel" and the 8 slot one as the "central relay panel" just for future reference so if I get pic of panel we are on same page I know somewhere in the site's archive search engine there is an illustrated photo of relays with labeling
    I am not worried about being on the same page as you with the relays, but in the list I have seen 11 and 12 on the thirteenhold aux panel dont match with what you said, and you said you werent sure if it was 11 and 12 or not unless i misread what you wrote. so I was just looking for a clarification....before i go pulling relays from the yard and/or opening some up to clean them.

    I watched a really good video on relays yesterday:


    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    the "heating" to start is weird, I am thinking possibly of the brushes in the starter itself
    so the owner texted me with the attempt this morning of the cold start.
    Engine 0 degrees
    Left side of steering column -1 degree
    Started right up

    So this tells me that my guess of temps is wrong and that I have no idea what could be wrong.

    The plan for tonight is to go and do a test with the ABS fuse pulled, then to pull all the sensors and blow the rings clean while rotating the rotors and see what she has to say for herself.

    Next plan is to clean the grounds that I haven't cleaned.

    On Monday I will go and grab a few (maybe second set of all) spare relays (esp if you can narrow down which ones you think it could be before then) and an ignition switch or two just in case from the scrap yard.

    ********************
    This just dawned on me (and I haven't tested it) because of the immobilizer and what happened to me with my old infiniti.

    many years ago I was in PA for a bachelor party, got stupid drunk, and broke part of my key housing on my fx35's keys. I couldn't start my car with my key. I thought I was stuck in PA because my spare keys were in VT. lucky for me, my FX had a remote starter. I could start the car with remote starter then put the key and turn the cylinder and drive.

    Now I believe this passat has an immobilizer because I recall seeing the car/key light (as it was a new symbol to me, it stuck out in my mind) turn on with all the lights when you turned the key.

    I do NOT recall seeing that light turn on in my failed attempts, but I am wondering if perhaps one side of the key is messed up and I by chance held the key in that orientation, while she held it the other way each time.

    its just a thought, I will test this out tonight as well.

  26. #24
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    o.k. looked at Bentley last night... head up my yang yang, the "central" relay panel (located behind aux. panel also has 13 slots but it uses ,at least on my 1.8, just the lower tier 1,2,3,4 V,VI, the "auxilliary" relay panel 13 slots ,positions 12 & 13 are the starter sequence, one is the D/N/P the other starter interlock...sorry for confusion, I'm old, take a look down in hole before blowing out , You might see something wedged that the air might not blow out, how about battery in fob? yep it does have immobilizer. if the relays click shut 12 &13 ,ha! visually then problem is downstream at starter.will check back in tmrw. evening, once again sorry.

  27. #25
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    head up my yang yang,
    We've all been there. no worries. I really appreciate your help.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    the "central" relay panel (located behind aux. panel also has 13 slots but it uses ,at least on my 1.8, just the lower tier 1,2,3,4 V,VI,
    my understanding is:
    the thirteen hold aux relay panel is the top half of this:
    Volkswagen-Passat-B5-FL-fuse-box-auxiliary-relay-panel.jpg
    1 Coolant Fan Control (FC)‐A/C Relay (373)
    2 Sun-Roof Relay (79)
    3 A/C Clutch Relay (267), A/C Clutch Relay (384)
    4 Daytime Running Lights Change‐Over Relay (173)
    5 Taxi Alarm Relay, High Beam Headlight Relay, Emergency Flasher Relay
    6 Selector Lever Light Relay
    7 Fog Light Relay (381)
    8 Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (451), Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (452)
    9 Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (451), Control Module for Multi‐function steering wheel (452)
    10 Brake Booster Relay (373)
    11 Taxi Alarm Relay Emergency Flasher Relay (200)
    12 Dual Horn Relay (53) Taxi Alarm Relay
    13 Park/Neutral Position (PNP) Relay (175), Starting Interlock Relay‐Clutch Position (53)

    the relay panel is the bottom half of the above 13 Aux Relay panel:
    Volkswagen-Passat-B5-FL-fuse-box-auxiliary-relay-panel1.jpg
    1 Dual Horn Relay (53)
    2 Load Reduction Relay (370)
    3 Free
    4 Fuel Pump (FP) Relay (372) (409)
    V Wiper/Washer Intermittent Relay (377) (389), Wiper/Washer Intermittent Relay/Rainsensor (192)
    VI Wiper/Washer Intermittent Relay (377) (389), Wiper/Washer Intermittent Relay/Rainsensor (192)
    A Fuse for 12v socket I in luggage compartment 20
    B Fuse for 12v socket II in luggage compartment 20
    C Fuse for Taxi 10

    the eight hold aux relay panel (Behind the panel above):
    Volkswagen-Passat-B5-FL-fuse-box-auxiliary-relay-panel-behind-relay-panel.jpg
    1 Free
    2 Free
    3 Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay 80 W (373)
    4 Free
    5 First Speed Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay (373)
    6 Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay (373)
    7 Relay for ABS with ESP (373)
    8 Coolant Fan Control (FC) Relay (370)
    and the items that aren't marked in the above picture, are the fuses on the eight hold aux relay panel.

    I got this info from: https://www.autogenius.info/volkswag...e-box-diagram/

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    the "auxilliary" relay panel 13 slots ,positions 12 & 13 are the starter sequence, one is the D/N/P the other starter interlock...sorry for confusion, I'm old
    again, no worries. I have marked them in red above so we are both talking about the same things.
    Now I think that only #13 applies and it's either:
    Park/Neutral Position (PNP) Relay (175) - for Automatic Transmission OR
    Starting Interlock Relay - Clutch Position sensor (53) - Manual Transmission.

    The patient is AT not MT.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    take a look down in hole before blowing out , You might see something wedged that the air might not blow out
    Copy that. I am also wondering if perhaps I pushed crap into the ring when cleaning the holes the ABS sensor sit in. I will try to take some pictures too.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    how about battery in fob?
    Seems fine, sends the signal for the doors and trunk first time, every time. Though the trunk doesn't open because the actuator is shot (and no longer attached) but the lights blink like they are supposed to. I will take an extra cr2032 from home with me tonight if I have some lying around.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    yep it does have immobilizer.
    I will be testing my theory on the key position issue tonight, and the battery as well, though I think that is less likely the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    if the relays click shut 12 &13 ,ha! visually then problem is downstream at starter.will check back in tmrw. evening, once again sorry.
    I will try to update tomorrow morning.
    If I have time to pull the knee bolster I will take pictures.

  28. #26
    3rd Gear
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chagrin Falls,Ohio
    Posts
    1,167
    I will PM you my Bentley diagram tomorrow late afternnoon , will look at again, taking off my panel tmrw. for access to some wiring (gauge install) and will take pic also of mine (relay layouts) you can always pull the horn relay (#12) and see if it will start, so we can compare ,mine is 1.8 so....maybe different??? ,but B5.5 built March 6 2002.....you know the more I think about it , I think 12 ..... when they say horn, taxi????? maybe they mean or interpret it as "alarm/start/interlock" the horn goes off if this relay is not correctly in starting sequence ,car being "hot wired" you can also pull and hit the actual steering wheel horn ,and of course left Bentley at home so will re look at and see what they name 12 and 13

  29. #27
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by cchief22 View Post
    .....you know the more I think about it , I think 12 ..... when they say horn, taxi????? maybe they mean or interpret it as "alarm/start/interlock" the horn goes off if this relay is not correctly in starting sequence ,car being "hot wired" you can also pull and hit the actual steering wheel horn
    I will take pics of the horns tonight. I could hook the battery up to the horns directly and you wouldn't hear a peep. They are beyond rusted. By chance I pulled my horns from my Infiniti after it was totaled. I can't really tell you why I kept them...but I am going to wire those into the Passat if I get a chance. THEN.....I could test the horn/relay.

    I also just got a text from the owner, she tried the key (there is only one key) both ways, started both times on the first shot, so there goes my theory on the immobilizer not reading one side of the key.

  30. #28
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123
    Hey just a quick update. I have a ton of pictures from last night, but my write up and also what relays I have will have to wait.

    So no issues starting at all with me. I still hit the chassis/engine ground with some cleaner, as the starter ground connections. The horns, I took a shot or two, but didn't get a chance to rewire to my old infiniti horns.

    Took a drive with the ABS (#7, ten amp) fuse. She was not happy about it. I assume it was in a limp mode because it felt very sluggish, but the braking was much smoother. upon further inspection (when spinning the rings around) the rotors should probably be replaced sooner than later.

    Put the fuse back and she had pep, and very noticeable pulsing.

    Blew a lot of air through the ring, a lot of stuff came out, but still ABS light. I am wondering if we killed a sensor getting them out or putting them back in. I called the dealership a day or two ago, and they wanted 150 to scan the car. DAFUQ?

    Also took pictures of the
    13 Aux relay panel stacked on top of the
    Relay Panel
    relay&13Aux.jpg

    8 Aux Relay panel, with no relays and only fuses
    DSC_0118_20percent.jpg
    Sorry its a crappy shot.
    Last edited by ar393; 03-09-2019 at 10:52 AM.

  31. #29
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123

    Some pictures

    First - why there is no sound when you hit the horn:
    DSC_0064_20percent.jpg

    Tone Rings: Front Driver, Front Passenger, Rear Driver, Rear Passenger
    FDRing.jpg
    FPring.jpg
    RDRing.jpg
    RPRing.jpg

  32. #30
    Neutral
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    123

    More pictures

    Sensors, Same order as above FD, FP, RD, RP
    FDSensor.jpg
    FPSensor.jpg
    RDSensor.jpg
    RPSensor.jpg

    Start and solenoid (I think) grounds
    Stsrter Grounds.jpg

    Engine to chassis ground
    DSC_0094_20percent.jpg
    This was after a health dose of CRC

  33. Remove Advertisements
    VW Passat Forum
    Advertisements
     

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Where do you live?

Year of model

car model

Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. 1.8t obd drive cycle procedure (for obd readiness)
      By 1.8tbeout in forum B5 Garage
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: 05-01-2016, 09:57 PM
    2. help! will ST coilovers fit b5 4mo as well as b5.5 4mo??
      By karanicole in forum Volkswagen Passat B5 Discussion
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: 04-02-2014, 06:33 AM
    3. Help with Check Engine Light and OBD Codes
      By bdetorres in forum B5 Garage
      Replies: 0
      Last Post: 10-24-2012, 09:43 AM
    4. Replies: 4
      Last Post: 08-15-2007, 05:36 PM
    5. cruise control light doesn't turn on, but cruise works
      By Bombay83 in forum Volkswagen Passat B5 Discussion
      Replies: 4
      Last Post: 06-25-2004, 07:08 AM

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •  
    Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2