Passat B6 CNG here, anybody else drive with methane?

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  1. #1
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    Passat B6 CNG here, anybody else drive with methane?

    Hello!

    Does anybody else drive with methane here?
    I've got a 2009 model of Passat B6 ecofuel, 1.4 tsi. So far no problems with it, it's been a very nice car, I've had it for about a year.
    Close to where I live there's a big farm, where they produce biogas from animal wastes. Passat drives about 500km with one fill-up also biogas costs about half of what petrol here does.

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    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    We have something they call CNG (Compressed Natural Gas). Mostly I see short trip commercial trucks set up to use this fuel. As for cars, probably more fleet vehicles then privately owned vehicles. It's not all too common but I do see more of it now then in years past.

    Public Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) stations and prices in Chicago, IL

    Natural gas cars: Doing the math - Chicago Tribune

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    When I was in college at UVM many of the campus buses were CNG powered. I've actually never seen a CNG powered car before though.

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    Yeah, it drives with CNG. Also, you can use CBG - same thing, but biogas, it's renewable etc. These cars are getting more common here all the time (I'm in scandinavia, Finland). Passat works really well with CNG, there's no difference to driving with petrol. Also the tanks are under the car, so hood space is normal. There's also a 30l petrol tank, so if CNG is unavailable, you can use petrol.

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    Are there any kits available for B6 2.0L tFSI available in Finland? Never seen them or any VW Passat conversions in UK.

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    I don't know, there isn't much point in doing a conversion when you can get a cng factory fitted one (like mine). I'd think passat ecofuel is available in UK? Strange if it isn't, there's a lot of these cars at least in Sweden and Germany.
    Or do you UK guys use more LPG than CNG?

  9. #7
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    That's the problem with distribution. I'm living just withing central London so we have a shortage of farms.

    Haven't really done research here for this -- being retired now only doing max 10k miles a year -- so with the talked-of conversion cost of £1.5k payback wouldn't start until over three years. And petrol pump prices are falling: now at £1.15/litre

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    What kind of fuel economy do you normally get? CNG has a higher energy content than gasoline,so that explains why you don't feel a power decrease. Turbocharged application looks like the right kind of air intake for it too given it stoichiometrically needs more oxygen for proper combustion.

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    Country roads and highway driving about 4 kg/100km, city driving is around 5 kg/100km.
    Energy contentwise, 1 kg CNG = 1,6 litre gasoline.
    Actually with conversion kits you usually lose around 20% of power.. VW:s factory fitted raises the pressure of the turbo when using CNG, so you have same power as with gasoline.

    In Helsinki, biogas is collected at the wastewater treament plant. It is then pipelined to filling stations, where the station raises the pressure and it becomes CNG. This network was originally built for natural gas use, and now they can add biogas to the same pipe network.

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    What are these Passat CNG varients called in Finland? When you go into a VW dealer showroom what do you ask for? We don't have that option in our brochures over here. Yes, motorway service stations often have LPG signposted. Not seen CNG anywhere, but havn't been looking.

    If it's the conversion plus uprating of turbo (still a K/03 but different control module settings or ECU re-map?) should be offered as an aftermarket option for the tFSI 2.0L

    (now down to £1.13/L for 95RON)

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    They are called Ecofuel. Sedan is also available.
    I know pretty much any petrol engine can be converted, so I supposed you could convert the tfsi 2.0.. but factory-fitted ecofuel is only offered with 1.4 twincharged tsi engine.
    Also there's other modifications, eg. there's no place for spare tire, instead gas tanks are under the trunk - trunk bottom is straight. If you did a conversion, you'd have to instal the tanks somewhere.

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    One LPG conversion company over here quotes £1,080 inc VAT on their website. Have requested quote for my tFSI 2.0L.
    Ecotec Autogas Ltd site map | LPG Conversion
    Dunno yet whether this conversion covers CNG.
    Nothing on VW's UK site for Ecofuel

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    Can't edit previous post.
    The tank is in the spare wheel well. I've got the estate (wagon) 3C5, 76k miles '06MY

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    Lpg is liquifiued propane, cng compressed methane. Very different things and cng equipment can`t use lpg, or vice versa.
    I think lpg doesnt need as big tanks as cng. Cng tanks in passat ecofuel are abou 140 litres alltogether, that gives cng range of 500km.

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    Looking at LPG coz there's only seven CNG outlets in UK listed as of Sept '14. Available to general motoring public:
    Great Britain | CNG Europe

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    Seems so.. yeah, you need to either live or work close to a CNG outlet for it to make sense. There's 25 CNG outlets in Finland, so that's pretty good, but they're all in southern Finland. I've driven about 30 tkm's now with this car, and I've had to fill petrol tank once
    Best price for CNG here is 1,2€/kg. That's like paying 0,75€/litre for gasoline (which is around 1,5€/l now I think).

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    Can you confirm you've got the 2.0L tFSI (BWA or BPY) engine?

    Following received from Ecotec Autogas quote "Unfortunately, we DO NOT OFFER LPG Conversion for Direct Injection System..
    Thanks for your interest." unquote

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    No I don't, sorry if I haven't been clear.. mine is 1.4 TSI twincharged (that's the only one they offer factory fitted with cng here).
    I don't know anything about LPG conversions, it's impossible to use LPG in Finland - there's no filling stations, and there's a tax of 300€/day for using LPG
    So only CNG here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samppa79 View Post
    No I don't, sorry if I haven't been clear.. mine is 1.4 TSI twincharged (that's the only one they offer factory fitted with cng here).
    Is that a direct injection motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by samppa79 View Post
    I don't know anything about LPG conversions, it's impossible to use LPG in Finland - there's no filling stations, and there's a tax of 300€/day for using LPG So only CNG here.
    How is this "tax" green? Or is this something that's forced on you from Strasbourg?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardSEL View Post
    Is that a direct injection motor?
    Yes, it's direct injection and with a supercharger and turbocharger combined. Here's more info about ecofuel cng drive:
    SSP425 EcoFuel Natural Gas Drive With 1.4 l 110 kW TSI Engine

    How is this "tax" green? Or is this something that's forced on you from Strasbourg?
    That tax has been set here in 1980 or something like that.. and no one seems to know why. LPG is tax-free for use in a grill though..
    Well, LPG is a fossil fuel, so I suppose you could call it green.. plenty of LPG cars in germany, so it's not forced from EU.

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    Thank you for the reply and interesting reading attachment.

    Seems they've modified many components to combat the higher temperatures and lack of lubrication CNG gives. Good option for today's Passat for where CNG is available. So, it's not that the engine's direct injection, just that the components in a standard existing petrol direct injection won't survive CNG and presumably LPG

    Yes, there's several LPG outlets over here

    Thanks again for the info

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardSEL View Post
    Thank you for the reply and interesting reading attachment.

    Seems they've modified many components to combat the higher temperatures and lack of lubrication CNG gives. Good option for today's Passat for where CNG is available. So, it's not that the engine's direct injection, just that the components in a standard existing petrol direct injection won't survive CNG and presumably LPG
    Thanks again for the info
    You're welcome But I'm pretty sure you can convert pretty much any petrol engine - even with direct injection - to CNG. With conversion kits you lose around 20% of power though. Maybe that's what they need to do, in order for the components to last. A friend had an Audi A8 5.2 l fsi converted to CNG, and it works like a charm.
    Don't know anything about LPG conversions though.

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