the "no replacement for displacement" Build thread

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Thread: the "no replacement for displacement" Build thread

  1. #1
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    the "no replacement for displacement" Build thread

    so I figured I would start a build thread here on passatworld cause lots of guys have been really helpful and I suppose this will be a good place to keep all my progress..

    A few of you guys know I picked up a Passat wagon in January, replaced the timing belt, water pump, alternator etc etc and got my wagon back on the road. the following month I decided to PES supercharge my setup. got a great deal on a kit and has been treating me quite well. but with the "always wanting more" feeling I decided to buy a complete car (exact same car as mine) and pull the motor and build it up so I can get full potential from the PES system. this was going to entail the 3.0 stroker setup, lowering compression, then going with quality internals to run full boost...

    that was until of course I was persuaded by family members to spend half the money on this build and just install a small block 350. made sense to me as I have a complete bare chassis to mock everything up before even touching my car. this of course would turn my 4mo into a rear wheel drive vehicle, but ive got the build going and its going quite well actually.

    the engine fits nicely in the engine bay as the 2.8 is a large motor, there are no clearance issues at this point with the engine or transmission. here are some photos of the current progress.

    My car currently

    pic1.jpg

    PES system

    PES system.jpg

    donor car

    pic5.jpg

    empty engine bay

    pic2.jpg

    short block mock up over cradle

    pic6.jpg

    moroso pan in order to clear the modified cradle

    pic4.jpg

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  3. #2
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    getting the motor to fit has been a breeze, the 2.8 is pretty big motor and the small block is fitting nicely. I have the motor and trans installed currently, and now ive been doing some fabrication to the lower cradle, and making engine mounts. im lucky at my work we have a full machine shop so ive been making template mounts and sections for the cradle.


    template for the cradle that needed to be cut, moved forward a bit to clear the oil pan and rear sump assembly.

    pic9.jpg

    the insert that needed to be welded in place for clearance.

    pic12.jpg

    all welded into place, worked out really well.

    pic13.jpg

    here are a couple engine mount templates ive been working on. trying to retain the stock mount location and from the 350 side mount its roughly 3 inches back towards the firewall in order to mount onto the stock location. I will most likely also add a dogbone that is connected to each rail for extra support. *these are just templates, real mounts will obviously be thicker steel.*

    pic14.jpg


    trying to button up the mounts this weekend but looks like it will carry into next week. once the front mounts are finished up ill start working on the rear transmission mount.

  4. #3
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    short block in place for your viewing pleasure

    pic15.jpg
    Hirnbeiss and climb_something like this.

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  6. #4
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    This is awesome.

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by climb_something View Post
    This is awesome.

    thanks man, definitely a lot of things to check off the list yet, hopefully once I get the mounts finished up ill work with a local shop getting the custom driveshaft made, and look into some rear diff options. The main goal is to have everything built and mocked up, so when I do pull my car into the shop and remove the motor, we can just proceed to slide the small block right into place and bolt everything up.

  8. #6
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    When I did my conversion, I built a motor mount bar to use the stock VW Passat motor mounts. The stock motor mounts blew out the first mile down the road. I went with solid rubber mounts I had left over from a Land Rover Discovery. Designed for a V8 and they are quite a bit shorter, stiffer, stronger and cheaper.


  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by etischer View Post
    When I did my conversion, I built a motor mount bar to use the stock VW Passat motor mounts. The stock motor mounts blew out the first mile down the road. I went with solid rubber mounts I had left over from a Land Rover Discovery. Designed for a V8 and they are quite a bit shorter, stiffer, stronger and cheaper.

    thank you for the input, yes I was most definitely planning on replacing with a solid rubber mount as the stock ones are incredibly soft. could only imagine this 350 that's going in producing nearly 500ft lbs of torque would tear those right off the mount, HAHA~

  10. #8
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    Hopefully you have read this thread through several times:

    GURU's official LS/B5 Quattro Swap for under 5k

  11. #9
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    [QUOTE=PZ;4220938]Hopefully you have read this thread through several times:

    [url=http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/333627

    yeah ive pondered through that but its not exactly relative. yes its v8 swap but hes doing an LS1 (which is awesome) but I wont be doing an awd setup either.. this will be converted over to simply rwd with a turbo 350. it also has a lot of "ooooohhh" and "ahhhhh" in there as well so its mind numbing browsing the pages.

    im currently making the last set up mock up engine mounts, hopefully my drafting skills are dialed in so its my last template before I have it made out of thicker steel for the actual setup, will update with photos. after that ill tackle the transmission mounting setup and then have a custom driveshaft made. sourcing some short and long blocks right now, but with the overall weight of the car I will need to be in the 450-500hp range to make this whole thing worth it. loving the fact I have an identical bare chassis in the shop for the full mock up.

  12. #10
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    I dunno. I think I could be satisfied with only 300-350 HP since all of that will be delivered through the two rear wheels.

    You can also look forward to having the only B5 that has an automatic transmission with a dip stick!

    Given all the problems you read about with neglected Tiptronics, I'm kind of glad the Tiptronic doesn't have a dip stick; otherwise, I might own a Passat with that transmission.
    Chris_Bob likes this.

  13. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electron Man View Post
    I dunno. I think I could be satisfied with only 300-350 HP since all of that will be delivered through the two rear wheels.

    You can also look forward to having the only B5 that has an automatic transmission with a dip stick!

    Given all the problems you read about with neglected Tiptronics, I'm kind of glad the Tiptronic doesn't have a dip stick; otherwise, I might own a Passat with that transmission.
    HAHA! yeah good thing the turbo 350 trans already has a super cool billet dipstick on it in the shop! yeah i dont think this whole thing would be worth doing for 300-350 ponies, i have to at least make 400-450 minimum to even get the power to weight in a good spot as the car is a tank. the current setup im running with the PES charger definitely makes the car fun to drive.. but with the overall curb weight paired up with the AWD system AND the sluggish shifting of the Tip, makes things a little dull. One of the things on my list to do was get Ian at reflect to tune the TCM so i could get some firmer shifting, but even he said after i do that, the tip is still kinda crappy and could junk out on me over time. My girlfriend in college actually bought a PES charged A4, NON quattro with a 5 speed and it was a world of difference than my car, so much faster.

    finished making my final engine mount template tonight, hoping to get with our workshop at work tomorrow, will possibly build it there or might have to get a machine shop to make the final pieces, some pretty tight bends and ill be using 1/4" steel for the appropriate strength.

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electron Man View Post
    You can also look forward to having the only B5 that has an automatic transmission with a dip stick!
    don't all passats have a dipstick ?
    climb_something likes this.

  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunrubandits65 View Post
    HAHA! yeah good thing the turbo 350 trans already has a super cool billet dipstick on it in the shop! yeah i dont think this whole thing would be worth doing for 300-350 ponies, i have to at least make 400-450 minimum to even get the power to weight in a good spot as the car is a tank. the current setup im running with the PES charger definitely makes the car fun to drive.. but with the overall curb weight paired up with the AWD system AND the sluggish shifting of the Tip, makes things a little dull. One of the things on my list to do was get Ian at reflect to tune the TCM so i could get some firmer shifting, but even he said after i do that, the tip is still kinda crappy and could junk out on me over time. My girlfriend in college actually bought a PES charged A4, NON quattro with a 5 speed and it was a world of difference than my car, so much faster.

    finished making my final engine mount template tonight, hoping to get with our workshop at work tomorrow, will possibly build it there or might have to get a machine shop to make the final pieces, some pretty tight bends and ill be using 1/4" steel for the appropriate strength.
    ill be by tomorrow and get the PES out of your way, ive got a V6 manual so i can enjoy it. its only a 2 hour drive, so your donation is welcome! lol!

  16. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyesreef View Post
    ill be by tomorrow and get the PES out of your way, ive got a V6 manual so i can enjoy it. its only a 2 hour drive, so your donation is welcome! lol!
    haha sounds good man, ill be out of town but ill leave the keys in the car and the shop open, feel free to uninstall it for me, 12 pack is in the fridge.

  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunrubandits65 View Post
    haha sounds good man, ill be out of town but ill leave the keys in the car and the shop open, feel free to uninstall it for me, 12 pack is in the fridge.
    hell to get a PES for the gas and an uninstall, id reinstall the factory parts for you. ive been looking for one.

  18. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyesreef View Post
    hell to get a PES for the gas and an uninstall, id reinstall the factory parts for you. ive been looking for one.
    well get your ducks in a row and buy this kit from me! Im supposed to pick up a little daily driver here next month most likely so my car can sit until the small block is installed.

  19. #17
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    you going to NOWO this weekend in frankenmuth? ill be there, if you are we should meet up!

  20. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyesreef View Post
    you going to NOWO this weekend in frankenmuth? ill be there, if you are we should meet up!
    na ive got a wedding near detroit tomorrow, then have to turn right back around and head home for a reception for a different wedding that night. dont know anyone at either wedding, super excited about it......

  21. #19
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    quick little update. got all my ducks in a row and picked up a brand new GM performance ZZ4 short block. going to switch out for a different cam to compliment the ARP aluminum heads. with the correct dialed in setup with carb etc etc i should be in the mid 400's on torque and HP.


    IMG_4157.jpg
    IMG_4156.jpg
    climb_something and Roostre like this.

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    picked up a used, but in perfect working condition CSR electric water pump. I believe im good clearance wise on the front of the engine to the front shroud, but figured switching over to electric as well would help as I will not be running a mechanical fan blade.

    pump is just over 6" off the face of the block, so hoping that I will have some sufficient space.. but, if the hood latch assembly does need to come off and pins need installation, so be it.

    CSR.jpg

  23. #21
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    Are you planning on just using a carburetor? That would simplify everything with respect to getting the engine running. I take it that you are custom building headers for this too. It should be a hoot.

  24. #22
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    yep definitely going to do a carb setup. my GF's brother has a good friend who deals with Demon so most likely will run a demon carb setup. yes I am planning on making custom headers, but will source a couple of different stock options, some of the S-10 v8 conversion headers look like they might just work with little to no modification. cross that bridge when I get there I suppose. couple more shots of the motor with pan installed, and the CSR water pump below.

    engine new.jpg

    engine bottom.jpg

    water pump.jpg

  25. #23
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    another little photo here of the water pump installed. looks awesome, blue matches the car.

    motor.jpg

  26. #24
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    oooook has been a minute since I have update the post but Ive still been making headway on the build. I ended up going with a set of edelbrock performer RPM heads instead of the original AFR's, got them from an acquaintance for a steal. so essentially the motor is buttoned up now. ended up pulling the zz4 hot cam and replacing with a lunati voodoo 282/290 with roughly .550 lift so it should be a beast. all the fabrication is finished now and the mock up chassis is off to the graveyard.

    I have also opted away from the turbo 350 we had built and ready to go in the shop, so we have decided to build a 4L60e instead for the 5 speed drivability factor.

    here are some updated photos of the engine build, valvetrain geometry, and some of the internals that were swapped out for higher strength aftermarket parts.

    comp cams double roller.jpgcomp cams roller rockers.jpgengine front view.jpgengine side view 2.jpgengine side view.jpgmoroso fuel blockoff plate.jpg

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    well ive finally finished the motor. ran into some snags getting the correct valve seals for these edelbrock performer heads, but nonetheless have that finished. engine just needs a set of tall valve covers, possibly going to have them painted to match the car, as well as getting my rollers set to zero lash. the 4L60e transmission is off to the shop next week for a full rebuild/build by a personal friend, and then ill need to make the decision on which standalone computer module ill be using to run the trans. pretty pumped at this point the motor is finally finished, ill definitely need to use a different air filter to get hood clearance, most likely a 2" drop filter, or some other type of cold air intake style. top end was capped off with a brand new Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap intake, as well as a Holley 750CFM, vacuum secondary with electric choke. Will be on the hunt this week for my ignition components, as well as my bypass fuel pressure regulator in order to retain my stock fuel supply.

    enjoy.

    engine finished.jpg

  29. #27
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    This is really cool. The engine looks fantastic

  30. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesty View Post
    This is really cool. The engine looks fantastic
    thanks man! yeah the motor came together really well. Not sure if I mentioned this before but my father is recently retired, and my whole life ive built EFI motors, nitrous motors, blah blah blah.. So my dad has never had any input towards things he didn't understand. So this is the first build we have done together and its been a hoot seeing him actually be able to put some input into the build. I must say this has been much, MUCH easier to build than any other motor, nothing like a simple pushrod V8.

    We had some aspirations of making north of 450hp/450tq but I feel we will be right around 400 on each side. I keep telling my dad "nothing a little nitrous or boost to solve that issue", in return I get eye rolls. LOL

  31. #29
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    quick little update!

    Just got the 4L60E transmission built and back from the shop, turned out quite nice actually. ended up going with a 2500 stall converter setup in order to match my compression/cam specs. Also ordered the full standalone US Shift Quick 4 computer system to run the trans. Super excited as both the stock trans and the 4L60e are cable driven so I'll be able to fabricate some brackets in order to run my stock shifter in the car. EVEN BETTER, the US shift computer has the paddle shift feature, so I can wire in my slap stick too! will feel totally stock and have all functions working from the stock shifter within the cabin.

    Also ordered up this full accessory kit for my alternator/power steering. was really hoping to get away from the old school V belt setup, and this dual belt 8 rib looks like it'll do the trick.

    removed the stamped chrome valve covers and replaced with some nice tig'd up aluminum tall covers.

    motor swap starts this weekend, will have some better updated photos.

    accessory kit.jpg

    valve covers.jpg

    cheers
    benzivr6 and Lesty like this.

  32. #30
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    well the swap has begun, just wrapped up rebuilding a motor for my father that lasted a couple weeks but its finally finished so the wagon is in! took roughly 2.5 hours to get the front clip off and get all the wiring disconnected, and another 4 hours to remove the motor. so 6.5-7hrs in and I have an empty engine bay. Needs a lot of cleaning as my old worn out 2.8 had oil leaks just about everywhere so my engine bay is covered in oil. at least I wont have to worry about the engine bay or chassis rusting out. anyways, a few photos below of the tear down.

    swap pic 1.jpg

    swap pic 2.jpg

    swap pic 3.jpg

    swap pic 4.jpg

    next steps are getting the engine bay cleaned of every unnecessary nut/bolt/wiring and do some cleaning. then ill move on to probably massaging the tunnel for the 4L60e transmission, (bashing with a 10lb sledge until it fits lol). then ill be able to slide the mock up block and trans into place to see where we're at with nose clearance issues, and firewall clearance.

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