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the "no replacement for displacement" Build thread

12K views 110 replies 20 participants last post by  gunrubandits65 
#1 ·
so I figured I would start a build thread here on passatworld cause lots of guys have been really helpful and I suppose this will be a good place to keep all my progress..

A few of you guys know I picked up a Passat wagon in January, replaced the timing belt, water pump, alternator etc etc and got my wagon back on the road. the following month I decided to PES supercharge my setup. got a great deal on a kit and has been treating me quite well. but with the "always wanting more" feeling I decided to buy a complete car (exact same car as mine) and pull the motor and build it up so I can get full potential from the PES system. this was going to entail the 3.0 stroker setup, lowering compression, then going with quality internals to run full boost...

that was until of course I was persuaded by family members to spend half the money on this build and just install a small block 350. made sense to me as I have a complete bare chassis to mock everything up before even touching my car. this of course would turn my 4mo into a rear wheel drive vehicle, but ive got the build going and its going quite well actually.

the engine fits nicely in the engine bay as the 2.8 is a large motor, there are no clearance issues at this point with the engine or transmission. here are some photos of the current progress.

My car currently

Land vehicle Vehicle Car Transport Luxury vehicle


PES system

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donor car

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empty engine bay

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short block mock up over cradle

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moroso pan in order to clear the modified cradle

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#44 ·
unfortunately we were unable to utilize the stock shifter like we had initially planned due to the overall throw length difference between the Volkswagen and GM transmission. the cable just can reach from Park to 1st. so we decided to replace the shifter with a B&M Quicksilver rachet shifter. only problem is the B&M units are much longer in length than what the stock shifter would allow in the console. but with some modification we have seemed to solve that issue. looks pretty good and the shifter is at the correct height. now without being able to use the fancy B&M chrome cover, ill have to try and source out a manual transmission shift boot in grey.

would have had the motor/trans installed together as the torque converter has arrived, but unfortunately the flexplate I had didn't have the correct mounting locations for the converter. Re-ordered a 10.75" flexplate and that's here, so tonight ill have the motor/trans connected, as well as the headers installed. pics to come.

Vehicle Car Hatchback Sport utility vehicle Gear shift
 
#46 ·
haha well with the first initial mockup it appeared we needed about 3 more inches of room up front. so once we get to that point, we will most likely remove the fan shroud and all the access plastic. we wanted to just simply move the radiator forward but then the grill wouldn't fit. so instead of using the factory radiator which is about 17" in height, and 1.2" wide.. we will most likely switch out for a 13" high radiator by 2" thick, in order to move it forward a bit. the way its looking we shouldn't have a problem with some minor modifications. the hood latch mechanism on the other hand.... that gone!
 
#47 ·
One of my automotive professors who is also a tech for Chevy was mentioning in our automatic transmission class that with some torque converters and flex plates they have the holes set up a certain way making it only able to be mounted together one way. Have you tried rotating the converter around to see if at any point the converter and flex plate holes all match up?
 
#48 ·
yes that is correct, some flexplates do come with a dual pattern for mounting, however the converter that I had was only the 11.5" mounting on all holes. oh well, replaced and finished now. FINALLY! the engine and transmission are mated together. got the correct flexplate installed which was perfect, as well as got the transmission mounted with no issues. clearance from the torque converter to flexplate was a little big, but used the Circle D converter shims provided and had no issues. so we are in a good spot now, next issue in line is having a custom power steering line made for the Saginaw series pump. once that's finished the motor is going in!

the shifter was installed and mounted correctly, so we are all good there as well. next week the motor should be in, just need to have the subframe blasted and powdercoated first. pics below for your viewing pleasure.

Auto part Tire Automotive wheel system Automotive tire Machine


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#49 ·
made some light progress this weekend as we finally got a chance to test fit the subframe with the spacers that were made to drop it 1/2", turned out pretty well. was worried about this because the factory holes for mounting are slotted a bit for some tolerance, but the 034 motorsports inserts are not, which means it has to line up perfect. And because I cut the subframe in half and re welded our modifications, there was a chance it was potentially crooked or cocked. luckily that was not the case, installed just fine with the new mounts, and spacers.

also was able to finally remove all the ecu wiring from the engine bay, wowza there was a lot of wires.

the MSD wiring, MSD 6AL-2 box, and coil all came in this weekend, as well as some nice mounting hardware for the plug wires. initially the wiring separators weren't going to work, but we ended up modifying the valve cover t bars, (tapping and threading them) in order to get the mounting brackets up and away from the sanderson header design, turned out really nice actually.

Only things on the list currently before the motor install next week is to get the power steering line modified and installed, and get the subframe blasted and painted.

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#50 ·
You will need to make spacers for the motor mount brackets too, as they will no longer bolt to the body of the car. I hear you on the wiring, I pulled the whole dash wiring out on my swap but at least now I have an oem looking manual setup.
 
#51 ·
oh yes we have spacers galore! few posts up you can see the smaller diameter ones for the engine mount, as well as a couple for the rear of the subframe. also had to make a couple for underneath the engine mount so the engine will stay in the correct placement. yeah we are a bit overwhelmed with pulling all the wiring at this point, tomorrow the drivers seat will get torn out and the carpet will come back, I'm sure there is a decent loom running to the TCM.
 
#53 ·
yeah, the mock up chassis we used had tons of wiring under the carpet. one thing we'll need to address is wiring in the fuel pump. must have some type of override when everything is disconnected.

motor is going in this evening as long as I finish the small cover for the shifter assembly that was installed. fingers crossed ill have some updates tomorrow.
 
#54 ·
and we are mounted. finally. got the motor and trans in place last night and got the subframe back in and locked solid. looks pretty darn good. also the accessory kit came so we are in the process of getting that installed. this weekend we will most likely button up the transmission mount, and finish some of the electrical odds and ends. heck we might even try and start it up open header just to hear it run for a few minutes! haha pics below. (PS the MSD box will not be mounted there permanently, my dad still doesn't understand when I tell him not to cut drill or screw anything in place without my say so.. AKA my firewall will look like swiss cheese by the time we're finished.. FML)

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#56 ·
sanderson headers actually. aside from the unique overall design of the headers, I was really disappointed with the quality. welding splatter all over the place.. cylinder number 7 would have been impossible to put a plug wire on without denting in the runner.. and the headers were still grimy and filthy with machining oil and metal inside the header tubes. if these headers weren't perfect for this build I would have returned them immediately.
 
#57 ·
made some solid progress yesterday in the shop as I had a full day to get some stuff done. buttoned up the front subframe for good, and re installed the lower control arms and sway bar link. it really turned out quite nice. Also was able to get the carpet pulled back, and get the transmission mounted and finished. feels good to know now that if we needed to, we could throw the wheels on this thing and roll it out of the garage if need be.

will probably start today getting the seats and everything back in, I was able to source a manual transmission shift boot and frame, hopefully ill have those back in by mid week. I removed the instrument cluster and started taking that apart as I was concerned with backspace for the autometer gauges, but thankfully we have plenty of room, will most likely build some type of plate to go over the original like how we have it mocked up. we are definitely getting there, one last thing before the car goes back to the ground is the driveshaft. Ive measured the front portion that will need modification so hopefully a local shop that does just about everything 4X4 related can help me out and get it done. then we will pretty much be off doing wiring for the motor and transmission.

pics of progress:

Vehicle Gauge Car Auto part Speedometer


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#58 ·
had a little bit of time yesterday to make some headway on the project, as ive been super busy and will be away over the holiday weekend. I was able to get the transmission wired up and that just needs some finishing touches (where to install the module etc etc). I did however run into a snag when going to get the driveshaft modified to work, turned out the end caps aren't welded on, they're heat spun on? first I had heard of anything like that, but have been told its pretty standard for European vehicles. anyways not going to work, HOWEVER I did luck out because MR driveshaft sells an adapter flange for the rear end with a standard 1030 U joint as they sell some pretty ridiculous 1,000HP axles for audi's. luckily they had a flange in stock so next week the driveshaft will be made, a nice one piece shaft and where the carrier used to be will be replaced with a driveshaft safety loop.

On to the next task, modifying the radiator shroud. I knew we needed more space and the shroud would have to be modified so we cut until we were able to get it back on the front of the car. at this point we have roughly 6" of space between the front of the engine and the bumper support/crash bar. not a lot of room but our radiator is shorter and fatter than stock, so it'll sit lower (13"High / 21"Wide / 2"Deep) and the dual fan setup we're going to run is roughly 2.5" thick. so tight, virgin tight. But it seems doable and we'll make it work somehow, pretty much how this build has gone the whole way through. approaching two months in the shop now so im thinking we'll be driving in a couple more weeks. Pics below.

cheers.

Vehicle Bumper Car Headlamp Grille


Land vehicle Vehicle Car Hood Bumper
 
#60 ·
it wasn't necessarily an issue with the modification, but the balancing factor. this place wasn't able to modify the shaft to where they could get it on a balancer. definitely an issue. anyways, all of that was solved with the adapter flange from mr driveshaft, that came and its perfect, had to drill the holes out just a hair and everything bolted up perfect. tomorrow im picking up the driveshaft and the driveline will be completely done. we did finish replacing the ignition housing which is great, and wired up the starter and fuel pump. some big steps forward, we should be in the business next week. the radiator came today so we will see how that fits, and then modify some mounts for install. we are really hoping that next week we can actually drive the car, at least down the road to see how everything is running. then we have a shop that's doing the exhaust so we'll get it trailered and bring it in, we were hoping to run a full 3" but I think with space constraints we'll only be able to do 2.5" including an X pipe and either flowmaster or borla mufflers in the rear.

updates to come..
 
#61 ·
well pretty much like anything else in the build, its always something. Radiator came yesterday and its the correct dimensions we need, looks great, quality is great, but unfortunately the inlet is dead in line with the power steering pulley. not enough room to get a 90 degree hose on in order to get around the pulley. so the inlet will have to be cut and repositioned on a 45 degree angle to get away from the pulley so we can go down and around with the coolant piping. the bottom outlet is in good shape. from the photos below you see can see just how much room we DIDNT have, as we ended up cutting the front grill out and a small part of the bumper bar (still in tact and solid we just trimmed the edges back an inch). I do however like how it looks, with it being aluminum I would assume many people will mistake it for an intercooler, but it looks pretty mean. now we just need to do some modification to mount it at the base, shouldn't be a problem.

We did get everything wired into the key yesterday and that was good progress, so one step closer to getting this thing running.

pics for viewing pleasure.

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Auto part Vehicle Tire Automotive wheel system Wheel
 
#62 ·
well the driveshaft is off at the shop now getting the combo u joints installed and a rebalance will be in order, can pick that up tomorrow. also dropped the radiator off at the fab shop to have the inlet pipe cut and re tigged on a 45 degree angle. The last thing I have to do is tackle the gas pedal before this thing can be driven down the road. the factory mounting points for this drive by wire pedal are so funky, on an angle, and the factory pedal is not square so I have no idea what im going to do.. I pulled a drive by cable pedal out of a Volkswagen bug over the weekend but I just don't know how im going to mount it yet. they sell universal pedal kits but really wanted to get away from that cause I know it will drive my crazy with how that looks. want to keep the interior as factory as possible.

also installed the shifter linkage yesterday from the B&M shifter, as well as ran the control module for the transmission into the glove box. just a few more minor things and I should be able to get a small test drive in... hopefully.
 
#63 ·
just watch out on the first drive, lowering the subframe also lowers the lower control arms so the suspension geometry might be slightly off.

other than that awesome build keep it going.
 
#64 ·
absolutely, that was one reason we were a little hesitant about making the subframe spacers was that the lower control arms were also going to drop .5", so we will see once the tires go back on where we're at. they slid right back into place which was nice. just hoping that because we just lowered them .5" that we wont have any geometry issues. fingers crossed there.

Last night we were able to finish the pedal assembly which is such a relief. last week at the bone yard we pulled a drive by cable pedal from a VW bug, the frame and everything didn't suit out needs but the pedal was a perfect match to our brake pedal, so we made an angled C bracket so to speak, and it went right in place where we needed it. even set up the full throttle stop and rubber mounted that so I don't stretch the throttle cable. driveshaft is finished and picking that up today, hoping the radiator will be done today or tomorrow. then once the radiator and shaft is installed, we will button up the rest of the wiring and get ready to put the wheels back on to get the car on the ground. super excited as we're looking at being able to test drive within a week id say.
 
#65 ·
I'm working on a 2000 GLX with a 2.8l (I'm putting timing chains in it) I told a friend that Chevy had a 2.8l 6 cylinder and it would be much simpler to work on than an ATQ. After a pause I said "Well, at least laugh, that was a joke" my friend said "Almost sounded like a good idea to me".....Loving your build. Much good luck
 
#66 ·
funny you say that, my father and I just rebuilt a 2.8 for his little S-10 pickup truck... and yes, much much more simple to work on. thank you for the kind words, we are getting so close now to getting the wheels back on this thing.

Made some good progress with limited time last night, I got the radiator back from the fab shop but I also had them break me a piece of aluminum for the lower mount. it kinda turned out similar to a skid plate, photo below. but it cut on the backside perfectly and I really like the way the mounting turned out. its a little farther forward than I had liked, but with clearance issues already with a fan I had to bring it as far forward as possible. im worried enough currently because I can only fit one electric fan on this radiator seeing its such a funky size (13" height, 17" wide). Im hoping that because the motor has aluminum heads, a high flowing electric water pump which will help in stop and go traffic because it doesn't vary in gallons per minute, and we have a high quality radiator. So fingers crossed this thing keeps cool. Ordered some odds and ends this morning so we should have the radiator finished Friday, coolant in the motor, trans fluid topped off, and the trans cooler lines installed. with some issues where the trans cooler lines are running, we might hard line them towards the front of the vehicle. we'll see.

Automotive exterior Bumper Vehicle Grille Car


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#68 ·
all depends on what you're looking to swap in... you might be able to swap to the other size motors they had available for that model, or possibly something from an Audi. but be prepared for a project when the swapping begins, nothing in my opinion is very interchangeable without headaches. This build has gone quite well but keeping in mind we had an identical mock up chassis before we even touched my car, guaranteed it saved us 6-8 months during the fabrication process.

thanks.
 
#69 ·
well the front end is finished. as you can see we had to bring the radiator up a bit and off the lower mounting plate to bring it forward again for clearance from the crank pulley... probably wouldn't have been a problem but the CVF Racing pulley setup im running is a dual with 8 ribs on each belt.. a little overkill but no chance for belt slippage.. transmission cooler lines are installed and in place.. we ended up doing the entire run with trans cooler rubber line, I think this will be a temporary thing just to get some test and tuning done, and we'll go back and run hard lines in place. but we have managed to get past the clearance issues, and we're finally done with fabrication, all we have left is to install the coolant burp bottle, hook up some gauges, and re install the interior. the weather here has been quite shit but im confident the car will be rolling by Saturday, and off the exhaust shop next week. took a shot of the front end setup for your viewing pleasure, looks pretty awesome without the grill in place seeing that monster through the window! lol

Vehicle Car Automotive exterior Automotive design Vehicle door
 
#70 ·
well I have some very good news, and unfortunately some very bad news. guess ill start with the good.

Day one of the test and tune and we had a couple leaks. two intake plugs on this edelbrock intake weren't tight so those needed to be thread locked and doped. problem solved. oil leak coming from the drivers side valve cover, removed, re gasket with some permatex, problem solved.

Day two of the test and tune we were in a very good spot. all leaks have stopped, car comes up to temp perfect and the fan control module along with the electric water pump keeps things cool which is a huge relief as this was a concern during the build.

AND FOR THE REAL PROBLEM... I was not aware that the rear differential in this car has reverse cut gearing... I personally don't know much about how rear ends work, but from doing a little research and trying to figure out what the hell was going on, it means everything is backwards. in order for the AWD system to work the rear diff needs reverse cut gears in order for the wheels to spin forward when In drive.

We didn't find this out until we got the wheels back on the car and ran it through the gears. park is good, reverse and the car moves forward, neutral works, and when in drive the car moves backwards.. so this project is nowhere near finished now. The only thing I can think is that in order to make this work, we will need to swap a rear differential out of a standard cut diff, and incorporate some custom half shafts... or pull the entire rear suspension and swap something in.. sounds horrible, and to be honest im a bit devastated.

one thing I have noticed is that the E36 BMW M3 rear differential looks very very similar to mine, mounting location wise. if im going to be swapping the rear end then I want something that is going to withstand the abuse.. no sense in putting something in there and custom fabbing it to work just to have it explode under pressure. if anyone has some input on this issue It would be greatly appreciated. bilsteins cranked all the way up in the front, ride height is excellent, can actually bring it down some if I wanted.
 
#71 ·
I have been doing some reading this morning that in the Porsche world, specifically like the 944's.. they take the ring and pinion from the audi transmissions and swap them into their rear ends to change gear ratio's etc etc.. so what if the ring and pinion are the same dimensions in the front of my car as the back? im assuming they can do this because the front ring and pinion assembly are not reverse cut in audi transmissions.. so is there a possibility I can take the front ring and pinion assembly from the from the transmission I have, and install that ring and pinion in my rear end to make the diff turn in the right direction?? fingers crossed someone out there might be able to shed some light on this situation im in!!
 
#78 ·
you were correct, and I was wrong, the 4mo spins the driveshaft counterclockwise like you suspected. I was not aware how popular it is to swap a chevy LS into those bmw e36 chassis's. forums all over the place with information on that, so what I have been reading is the medium size 188mm diff's can handle anywhere from 400-500 horsepower on stock internals. I think down the line we will pull this medium diff and replace with the larger 210mm which from what I have read handles 600-650hp/tq. that is of course if I can talk my dad into forced induction :)
 
#73 ·
incorrect (I think), the driveshaft probably is rotating in the same direction as the 4L60e, however the ring and pinion are backwards (reverse cut gears). From what the owner of the transmission shop has told me, with the vehicle in drive the driveshaft should be spinning the same direction as the motors rotation. so both spin clockwise, but the gears within the differential are reversed spinning my wheels in the opposite direction. this is all still a bit confusing on my side, but yes, most definitely a SNAFU situation to say the least.

maybe someone has an AWD setup and they wanna verify which was the driveshaft is rotating while in drive!?!?! lol
 
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