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Some Oil Questions

3K views 38 replies 10 participants last post by  ylwagon 
#1 ·
I've been reading a lot about what oil to put in my Passat -- 2000 GLX, AWD, 2.8.
Seems the consensus is that synthetic is the best, dino is ok, but to avoid blends?
Also, seems that there is an issue switching from one type to the another. I haven't come across any explanation as to when one type is better than another.

My authorized service station has been putting in a blend (not sure what brand). I've been changing the oil every 3,000 miles.
On one occasion, when I went for a change, they said the pan was dry.

So -- the question is, do I stick with blend? spend the extra money on synthetic? or drop to dino?
And, whatever type I use, how will I know if there is a problem?

Thanks.
 
#2 ·
#3 ·
I know that this "oil thread" will get closed, so I'll be quick. Changing every 3K is just wasting time and money. Blends are fine. No issue going from one type to another. And I wouldn't be too concerned about oil-related problems with your V6. FYI, my 2.8 A4 which I just sold with 270,000 miles, had 10K mile changes of Mobil-1 0W-40, and even then the oil I drained out seemed pretty much OK.
 
#5 ·
my 2.8 A4 which I just sold with 270,000 miles,
How much did you get for it?

had 10K mile changes of Mobil-1 0W-40, and even then the oil I drained out seemed pretty much OK.
Darn! I use Mobil-1 0W40 and I change it every 5K miles religiously. I have always suspected that these full synth oils should go more than just 5K miles. I think Mobil guarantees engine performance with this oil up to 15K miles. May be should also start stretching the change intervals with this oil from Mobil but am undecided.
 
#4 ·
If you want to learn about oil here is the best place to do that. Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy

On the V6 you can use dino, blend, or synthetic. In the turbo motors due to the small oil capacity and the high heat synthetic oil is a must, but the normally aspirated V6 is much easier on oil. The most important thing is to change the oil and filter on a regular basis. I use Castrol 5w 0r 0W-40 VW approved full synthetic and have for years now after switching over from dino.

Dry pan? The car holds 6.5 quarts of oil so I doubt you had a dry pan, not to mention the fact you engine would have seized and the conversation would be much different. More than likely you have no oil showing on the dip stick. Which means you were about a quart low and still had 5.5 quarts in the pan/engine.

Changing to different types of oil being a problem is a myth. BUT, changing to full synthetic which flows and cleans better than dino oils can appear to cause problems. Really all that it will do in some older engines is find cracks in your valve cover gaskets and leak out of these cracks. This is not a problem caused by the oil, its a maintenance issue and the gaskets needed to be changed anyway.

Use what ever oil you want (hopefully a VW approved oil) and change it regularly and you should be fine.
 
#6 ·
The CCT pads on the V6 do not hold up long term with dyno oil. I replaced mine 2 years ago (maybe 154K on them) as they had deep grooves from the chain. I've seen too many V6 engine with broken tensioner pads and bent valves when the chain skipped. I expect the car had dyno oil for the 72K before I bought it.
 
#9 ·
Emry,

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, with your stated perspective on costs of repairs versus the value of the vehicle there's another thing you need to consider, and consider it quickly...
Although you have it listed as "upcoming" I assume you're aware that it's actually more like "long overdue" for a TB.
If you keep driving that VW on that same TB your plan to "run it 'til it dies" isn't going to be driving it for very much longer and by further ignoring the factory recommendations, whether you realize it or not you're now at a point of basically hammering more nails into that vehicle's coffin every time you turn the key.

Ignoring a TB interval on any VW is just a bad idea. Interference engine + TB slippage or breakage = bent valves and they seem to go from running fine to fubar with little or no warning and sometimes for the most bizarre reasons depending in which engine it is...

On the Passat 1.8T I'm not totally sure what the factory TB service interval is (just bought my B5.5 1.8T wagon days ago and haven't gotten it home yet) but at 123K and still driving yours I feel like you're at serious risk of tripling that $800 TB replacement cost or worse (especially if you don't want to DIY it) WHEN it soon fails and leaves you stranded and the vehicle instantly becomes worth a fraction of what little it's presently worth in drivable condition.

If you really plan to "run it 'til it dies" and you want it to go for at least a few more years instead of a few more months (and you don't want to try DIY'ing a TB service) you really should seek out a trustworthy VW shop and let them breathe some new life into your 1.8T Passat asap if you really plan to keep it since it's currently limping along on its' death bed the more you drive it...
 
#12 ·
No my TB is not the original. I changed the TB and WP at 60K miles in 2009. It's 7 years and 65K miles later that's why I said it's due for change again.

I think the confusion came when I said I've never done TB change. I meant I've never changed a TB myself as DIY not that TB was never changed on my car.
 
#11 ·
Well I was given the opportunity to purchase my 1-owner 2003 1.8T B5.5 wagon with right around 90k miles on it last week (give or take about 3k) because a repair shop told her the water pump is leaking and she didn't want to pay their quoted price for having it replaced along with doing a timing belt service which I got the impression has never been done on this vehicle...
Hopefully the shop was correct and a water pump is all that's really wrong, time will tell once it finally gets here.
Once it arrives I will be doing a full timing belt service on it while I'm replacing the water pump since the belt has to come off to replace the pump anyway.
Having been a Mk4 ALH TDI owner for several years I'm excited about getting to drive a 1.8T gas turbo VW and especially liking the fact that it's in a bigger wagon than my current TDI Jetta wagon too.
I was disappointed at the lack of chosen options in this particular wagon for the trim level it is and hindsight is indicating that I might've overpaid for it but it's still a good looking vehicle that I'm really looking forward to getting to drive soon if all that's really wrong is the water pump.

Plus, if Emry is on a 60k interval and it did get done on schedule it's now more than double that original interval and would still be overdue at this point.
 
#13 ·
I'm excited about getting to drive a 1.8T gas turbo VW
Yeah, but you need to do more than just the TB and WP on Passats. I recommend you also check/change the spark plugs, service the PCV system, change the fuel filter, clean the MAF and TB body, flush the brake, .... just to name a few.

Plus, if Emry is on a 60k interval and it did get done on schedule it's now more than double that original interval and would still be overdue at this point.
I either go by the time (that is 7 years) or miles (around 70-75 K) to change the TB and WP. I think these are safe intervals.
 
#14 ·
Emry,
Thank you for the Passat to-do list recommendations!
This wagon is still somewhere between 5k and 15k under the 100k mile mark and it has been her daily driver vehicle the whole time, although she apparently doesn't go very far which means lots of sporatic stop and go operation but I digress...
Although this doesn't always tell the real story of a vehicle's true overall condition it's her only vehicle, she's had it since it was new, and I was told it just developed the coolant leak within the past couple of weeks (and was never run hot) so it's not like it's been broken and got left sitting up for a long while letting things get dry rotted and stale. That's another reason I decided to buy it. It seems like a decent vehicle in need of a fairly straight-forward fix although it IS a used car so we'll soon see if my choice to trust her and buy it without going through it thoroughly myself first was worthy or foolish on my part.
She wasn't reporting any unusual operation or drivability issues other than the very recent (shop diagnosed) water pump leak and she claims that any time the CEL ever came on she always went straight to the shop to have them diagnose and fix whatever it needed so I feel like the TB job (with new water pump) and getting all the water out and the proper G12 coolant back in the system and making sure there are no more coolant leaks should be my first steps which ought to resolve the alleged leaky water pump problem that prompted her to sell this wagon and allow me to put it back on the road quickly as-is.

Beyond that the PCV system also sounds like a wise choice along with my planned oil and filter change to a good full synthetic just in case that's not what she had been running and then I'll get to spend some quality time behind the wheel getting familiar with a Passat and becoming more acquainted with this particular vehicle to see what else might get put onto the "service me asap" list that I'm not aware of yet and I'll go from there.
 
#15 ·
Thanks everyone. If I stay with dinor or blend, can I go 5,000 miles between changes? Or, if I go to synthetic (which is 2x cost at my place), can I go longer?

And -- what are the symptoms of an oil-related problem? Will I see oil stains under the car? Smell burning? I try to check my oil level every 1,000 miles or so -- will I see the level dropping faster?
 
#16 ·
Thanks everyone. If I stay with dinor or blend, can I go 5,000 miles between changes? Or, if I go to synthetic (which is 2x cost at my place), can I go longer? And -- what are the symptoms of an oil-related problem? Will I see oil stains under the car? Smell burning? I try to check my oil level every 1,000 miles or so -- will I see the level dropping faster?
Dino/Blend oil is strongly not recommended in this car. Historically it has caused the sludge problem. But if you really have to use them then I would say change them every 3K miles max (preferably 2500 Miles). If you use full-synth oil then you can easily go 5K-6K miles. The synth oil protects your engine much better in high temps while the regular oil does not due to its unstable molecule structure in such high temps.

If you see the oil level drops after a few thousand miles, nothing to worry about. That is normal especially when the car gets old. Then you simply top it off.
But if you see drastic oil level drop then you are losing oil from somewhere which you need to find out rather quickly.
 
#19 ·
As far as the best or proper "OCI" oil change interval for your particular vehicle goes, if you really want to know how your oil is behaving there are companies that you can send a sample of your used oil to and they can give you an idea of how much usable life is left in it along with what particulate matter it has collected since it was last changed which provides indications about the overall internal condition of your engine including things like bearing wear and leaky head gaskets long before the typical symptoms become obvious. Keeping in mind that how and where you drive also effects usable oil life and the recommendations in your manual are typically a worst case scenario "safe" OCI recommendation...
Ironically, having an oil sample tested is similar in cost to having a dino oil change done but at least it will help you to get a better idea of whether a 5k, 7.5k, 10k or longer oil change interval is more appropriate for your vehicle with your personal driving style and your typical traffic and weather conditions based on the type of oil you've chosen and what they are able to detect in it after you've driven on it for about 2k miles or more. They can't really give you an exact number more miles it's capable of but they can tell you if you're nearing the end of its' usable life (a good indication of what your OCI should be when using that particular oil) or that you've got a lot more usable life left in it or anywhere in between so if you have 2 or 3 tests run over a 5k or 10k period you can use a comparison of those test results to get a real world feel for how long you ought to be able to go between changes rather than just blindly changing it at a set interval just because it was suggested to do so.

Also, I've read on this site that the V6 timing chain tensioner pads tend to wear excessively and/or abnormally and can eventually cause chain slippage with dino oil use while the V6's that have been run solely on full synthetic don't usually suffer that same fate. I don't own one myself, that's just what I've read on here about them...

Since you seem concerned about what oil to use, go look at wal-mart's oil selection, find whichever of the synthetic brands and weights they have in stock that are discussed on this forum and then compare prices and see just how dino and full synthetic in the same weight from the same brand really compare so that you can see what they actually cost and ultimately have the knowledge of what that you should be paying for that oil the next time you go to have it changed.

Most oil change places will let you choose oil brands and types if you ask (and if they stock it) and some places will either negotiate on the price for it or let you bring your own oil and/or filter and knock some off their total price to do your oil changes and you can pick up good quality name brand oils far cheaper at wal mart than almost anywhere else, even though I'm not a fan of wal mart myself.
If you feel that they're over-charging you or they won't use the brand, type, and weight you want (and won't agree to a fair price for it) then you might want to shop around for a better place.

I once had an oil change place want to charge me $28 (plus tax) for a quick change with their house dino oil (and crap filter) or $65 (plus tax) for their house "synthetic blend" or $115 (plus tax) for the Mobil 1 full synthetic (which they had in stock) that I was running in that particular vehicle.
After recovering from a few moments of sticker shock I pointed out to the manager that I could buy the necessary quantity of that same exact Mobil 1 full synthetic oil at wal mart for $35 (at the time) and that I was already providing my own filter and I was pleasantly surprised when he didn't say no or try to argue. He just paused for a moment, did a little math in his head, and came up with a far better price that I was totally okay with so 6.5 quarts and $58 later including tax (with my filter) I watched them change my oil from the comfort of the customer lounge, paid the man, and went on my way...

Best regards in your oil endeavors. I'm still thinking about all of this for the 2003 wagon I just bought although my dilemma is which full synthetic and what weight I should run since mine is a 1.8T and I'm in a hot climate.
 
#20 ·
The way I look at it, a 5,000 mile OCI even with Castrol Edge 0W-40 and a big Mann filter on the 1.8T just makes good sense. A 5 quart jug of the Castrol Edge is less than $25, and a Mann filter is under $10, shipped, on Amazon. And, if you are going to do the oil change yourself anyway, you're also going to be doing all the other routine maintenance inspections anyway, so the 5,000 OCI is just good time to do it all--checking brakes, rotating tires, checking for leaks, cracks, worn parts, etc. Plus, maybe its just my imagination, but the motors just seem to run better with fresh oil in them. And, I understand that anti-wear additives in oil, such as the zinc compounds, tend to break down over an OCI. So extending out an OCI just means that you're getting less benefit of those anti-wear properties. And not all oils are equal in terms of the amount of zinc compound they put in their blends. There are some oil analyses posted out there on the web that explain who's brand uses what amount. It is very interesting to consider those analyses as far as oil choices go. Castrol Edge's analysis had a higher level of zinc additive than many other synthetic brands, and still it's reasonably priced for a full synthetic.
 
#21 ·
I've been using Valvoline SynPower 5w40 synthetic for quite a while. I think I used to get it from Bob the Oil Guy but found it was cheaper by getting it with a Subscribe & Save from Amazon at $38.84 for a case of six quarts with free shipping. I change the oil and filter every 5K miles. I know I could go longer, especially considering that I'm putting in a fresh quart about every 1.5K miles. I have no evidence of leaking so where it goes is a complete mystery to me. My garage floor is spotless under the engine.

As for these cars not being reliable, I beg to differ. With the information available in this forum and a proper maintenance schedule, a B5 Passat can be one of the most reliable cars you'll ever own. I know my '99 1.8T has. I'm right around 197K and counting. I figure I'll replace it when it hits about 250K, barring any unforeseen circumstances like some idiot pulling out in front of me. My '79 Mazda RX-7 died that way on the day it turned 100K miles.
 
#24 ·
I'm putting in a fresh quart about every 1.5K miles. I have no evidence of leaking so where it goes is a complete mystery to me. My garage floor is spotless under the engine.
It's going out the tail pipe. some past the piston rings, past the intake valve seals, turbo impeller-side seal, and mainly through the PCV system. All engines consume oil, just to different degrees.
 
#22 ·
My Jetta wagon is at 306k miles and climbing. The second owner ran full synthetic. The original owner ran whatever the dealer put in it although their receipts say they paid for synthetic.
I ran it 2k miles past the most recent timing belt interval due to a huge work project not leaving me time to do it myself and stressed over getting bent valves every time I turned the key until I was finally able to do that service, but I didn't have time to do the oil chain replacement so now I'm stressing over that and going easy on my wagon until I can pull it all apart again to install a new oil pump chain as I'm told that they do tend to break before 400k.

It's like owning a Honda, good quality fluids AND proper grade fluids and regular scheduled maintenance and it usually keeps going, except that the VW's seem far more huffy about the type and quality of fluids and a bit more huffy about the precision timing of their maintenance intervals...

100k miles should'nt be the hoped for or expected life/failure goal for engines anymore, it hasn't been for at least three decades for most automakers.
If you run full synthetic and do all the scheduled maintenance punctually with quality parts, these days 200k should probably be the minimum goal and 300k is not out of the question...
But go the cheap route its' whole life by using dino oil or blended with bargain filters and change it when you get around to it because it still seems to run okay on that stuff and 80-150k is likely all you're gonna get out of it unless it's all highway miles...
PLUS apparently it also seems to matter which engine you have in your Passat as to what is okay and what is not but run type approved and proper weight full synthetic with a good filter in any of them and follow the recommended change interval and you ought to have nothing to worry about.
 
#26 ·
You won't cut years of life from your V6 car by using "Dino" oil or Dino/synthetic blends. Just don't worry about that. If you are going to fret over anything, it's should be the cooling system. That's the engine killer, so have leaks fixed and be sure the coolant level sensor is working.
 
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