KSEADUBs 2000 Passat GLX 4Mo 'build'/repair/gripe thread

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Thread: KSEADUBs 2000 Passat GLX 4Mo 'build'/repair/gripe thread

  1. #1
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    KSEADUBs 2000 Passat GLX 4Mo 'build'/repair/gripe thread

    Hola everyone!

    I've been lurking around this forum here and there ever since taking possession of my Dad's old 2000 Passat GLX 4Mo when he upgraded to an A6 back in 2012. Needless to say, I love the fact that this resource exists for these cars. It makes working and tinkering on them soooooo much easier. It also nice to know that there are a few people out there that are as nutty about this stuff as I am.

    Anyway, the car has been a spare car for me ever since my Dad upgraded. It spent some time as my daily driver shuttling me back and forth to and from work. Eventually, the dreaded cam seal oil leaks got the best of me, and it pulled it into the garage to change them and the whole PCV system out. That was... TWO years ago. :| House projects and well... life.. seemed to get in the way at every turn. Things have settled down a bit now, and over the last few weeks I have been able to put some time into bringing the car back to life.

    Those few weeks have been an adventure trying to figure out and understand a few of the stumbling blocks I had run into that made it easy to work on other items on my 'to do' list rather than the Passat. In that time, i've kinda been all over the VW/Audi forum universe looking for advice and feedback, and have been inspired by a lot of the build threads I have seen out there. With that in mind, I wanted to scratch out a little piece of the internet for myself to document the work that I have, and will be putting into this car... so here we are! Yah, i know... a stock Passat maintenance thread, you might be thinking... Why bother?? This is definitely not going to be anywhere near as entertaining as a Stage III S4 build or anything like that, but just a spot to record what I have done, and to hopefully get some feedback from you kind folks if you see me taking steps in the wrong direction. I see the work that I put into this car as a way to take the limited mechanical skill set I have now and build upon it. I've always had a thing for the B5 S4, and am thinking one of those might be in my future someday. So, I figured a B5 V6 4Mo Passat would be as good of a 'practice' car as any!

    So first... a little bit of background on the car.

    My dad bought the car new in the summer of 2000. It had been a demo car, and had about 500 miles on it when we took possession in August. I wish I had more pictures of it back in the day... but, here's the original window sticker:



    Anyone have any idea why they thought they had to call out the '1000r rack and pinon steering'? Sure sounds fancy!

    Here is the earliest pic I could find... from a Pacific Coast Road trip in 2004 after I graduated from university. Yep... its blurry. Apparently we didn't take a whole lot of photos of it!



    Its got 134k on the clock as it sits today. I dunno what it is about it, but I've always had a real strong sentimental connection with this car. It's not like it was the first car I learned to drive on or anything like that. I had long moved away to college by the time my dad bought it. Its certainly not exotic or even overly fancy. I've always just thought it to be quite competent transportation with nice clean lines. Additionally the interior bits were/are top notch as well. In my opinion, this was as good as VW ever got at building solid interiors. All the Passats I have been in since feel cheap in comparison, which in a way is a bit sad and disappointing.

    Since taking posession, i was able to do a few things. I found some aeroblade wiper arms in the classifieds and installed those... Also found some OEM HIDs and popped those on... horrible pic to follow:



    The internals of one of the HIDs was busted by the time it got to me from the seller. I did a makeshift repair at the time, but the adjustment is no longer working, so I need to get back in there an tinker with it some more.

    I came out one morning and the rear drivers side window had a golfball size hole in it , so the door came apart for a replacement to go in:



    Then, I bought a house that had a real garage, and I was finally sick enough of the Cam Seal issue to think about doing something about it. Into the garage the passat went, and disassembly commenced:



    But not before finding this little guy:





    And that was two years ago.

    Fast forward to today, as mentioned previously, I'm taking a different tactic with the repair work. This is going to become a 'learning car' where I can repair and fix at my own pace (obviously... )

    I'm still working on the passenger side head, and after running into a few stumbling blocks getting the Cam Chain Tensioner compressed (the compression tool fitting threads stripped out, see here ) , I was able to get it and the intake cam out of the car.





    Next steps will be cleaning up of the passenger side head before I slap the seals and gaskets back in. (A new CCT is on its way to me from GAP). Anyone have any thoughts on anything additional I should check while I have the intake cam out? Anything I should look for on those valve lifters? Anything to look for as far as abnormal wear on the camshaft itself? Where can i find specs to check the cam lobe diameters? I didn't see anything in the bentley that discussed this, but maybe I just missed it.

    Additionally, does anyone have the part number for the bolts for the camshaft bearing caps? I managed to 'tweak' a few of them when taking out the intake cam, and they won't be going back in the engine. I've heard conflicting things about these depending on which post I have read... either 1) they aren't available... or 2) they aren't individually available unless you are buying a new head. I find that ridiculous. Dinking around on Audizine, I was able to find this part number: WHT002015, in the B6/B7 S4/RS4 forum. Its a long shot given that the engine in that application is totally different (4.2L V8), but it's all I've got thus far, and maybe they have similar cam caps... I don't know... I've thought about just ordering one to see if its the same.

    Its been neat taking apart the intake cam and cam caps, seeing the level of detail/fit and finish it takes to construct these parts, all the small oil passages drilled into the caps etc. If you can't tell, this is the first time I've done any major engine work.

    OK... so as previously mentioned, a new CCT is coming from GAP, and I have ordered the 'deluxe' timing belt kit as well. I figured that I would just get that one out of the way for another 90k while I'm in here tearing up all this stuff on the front end, and since I'll be taking the cam pulleys off anyway to replace the seals etc etc. Vacuum lines are all getting replaced while I'm in here too. The old ones are quite beat up, with their exteriors fraying etc. I haven't vac tested them so they might be functionally fine, but with 15 years and 134k on them, I figured it would be a good idea. I'll be checking the functionality of all the solenoids as well. I'll hopefully remember to keep this up with my progress as I try to get this thing back on the street.

    Once all that is done, there is still plenty to do... A short list:
    - Heater Core
    - Engine Mounts
    - Suspension Components (haven't even begun to think about this one)

    Yikes.... I just have to keep remembering this is an adventure

    More to come!
    Last edited by KSEADUB; 11-09-2015 at 08:11 PM.

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  3. #2
    PZ
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    The cam cap bolts should be available from the dealer, I've purchased several over the years. Try part number: 058 103 460 A

    For all part numbers, use this post: OEM VW Part Numbers (ETKA)!

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    Great post, but the pix aren't working.
    jjpark likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    The cam cap bolts should be available from the dealer, I've purchased several over the years. Try part number: 058 103 460 A

    For all part numbers, use this post: OEM VW Part Numbers (ETKA)!
    Thanks! Thats quite helpful.

    A bit of an update on this one... I took the VW part number PZ listed and went to 1stvwparts.com to look it up. The search engine couldn't find it. Frustrated and on a bit of a lark... i went over to audiusa.com, stuck in the same number, and voila! This came up:



    I guess they are the same bolts!


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    Last edited by KSEADUB; 11-09-2015 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Add'l findings on listed cam cap bolt part number

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    KSEADUBs 2000 Passat GLX 4Mo 'build'/repair/gripe thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in Chicago View Post
    Great post, but the pix aren't working.
    Thanks! I'll have to attack the photos tomorrow. They were working at one point.


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    Last edited by KSEADUB; 11-09-2015 at 08:20 PM.

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    Motel Room Moderator VAGguy's Avatar
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    I'm sure you'll find out that many on here get just as excited about someone fixing their car and spending time on maintenance than seeing a Stage Whatever build. Myself included.

    Keep it up and get those pics loaded. Anxious to see them.
    Last edited by VAGguy; 11-10-2015 at 03:38 AM.
    Glutton for Punishment: 13 CC Sport Plus, 04 Passat 1.8T GLS Variant Manual swapped, 99 C-Red Passat 1.8T (crushed)

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    Quote Originally Posted by VAGguy View Post
    I'm sure you'll find out that many on here get just as excited about someone fixing their car and spending time on maintenance than seeing a Stage Whatever build. Myself included.

    Keep it up and get those pics loaded. Anxious to see them.
    Thanks!

    Pics should be fixed now, not sure what happened there.

    Also I wanted to link in this thread on CCTs from Audizine. Check it out here User 'old guy' over there made some discoveries about aftermarket CCT's and their performance relative to his old OEM unit. There are some neat before and after pics, and some good discussion relating to the positions of the CCTs during normal engine operation... measuring blocks to monitor etc. All his info pertains to the 1.8T AMB engine, but there are some ATQ goodies at the end that he was able to dig up for me. The part itself looks to be quite similar between the engines, even if it operates differently.
    Last edited by VAGguy; 11-10-2015 at 03:38 AM.

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    Great writeup. Good luck on the project, and keep us posted!

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    KSEADUBs 2000 Passat GLX 4Mo 'build'/repair/gripe thread

    Allrighty. I got some time this afternoon to prep the passenger side head for the replacement seals, and the new cam chain tensioner. Getting all that baked on oil off is pretty tedious work, and I'm still not totally happy with the results, even though the mating surfaces do look a lot better.



    I might do some additional sprucing up here and there, but up next is dropping the intake cam back in with the new CCT and making sure i have everything in time still. Oh, i guess i still have the cam caps to clean up too.

    Should i do anything to the cam bearing surfaces before dropping the intake cam in? I was planning on just running a light coat of oil on the cam itself and on the bearing raceway in the head and in the cap. Should that be good enough?
    Last edited by KSEADUB; 02-15-2016 at 06:21 PM.

  12. #10
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    Go purchase some camshaft reassembly oil.
    It's thick and sticky, will give you lubrication till the pump gets the oil flowing correctly.
    Always use this rather than just regular oil.

    Something like this,
    Your local parts store should have it or something similar.

    Dirt Bike Lucas Oil Assembly Lube | MotoSport

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    Quote Originally Posted by V6er View Post
    Go purchase some camshaft reassembly oil.
    It's thick and sticky, will give you lubrication till the pump gets the oil flowing correctly.
    Always use this rather than just regular oil.

    Something like this,
    Your local parts store should have it or something similar.

    Dirt Bike Lucas Oil Assembly Lube | MotoSport
    Roger that! Thx.

    Additionally i read somewhere someone recommending thread locker on the cam cap bolts. Any thoughts? Do they make high temp lock tite?


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    Ok, so since i have this week off work, I'm back at it. I spent a bit this afternoon just re-familiarizing myself with where I had left off. The perils of not cranking all this out over one day.

    I was still pretty happy with the cleanup job I had completed the last time I posted, so I got busy trying to re-install the cam chain tensioner and the the intake cam.

    I looked a bit for some recommendations on where to place the RTV goo on the CCT gasket, and ended up coming up with the following:



    Basically over the half moon seal and then on the ends themselves for good measure. Anyone have any better recommendations? (I'll be doing it again, see below, so I'm all ears.) I also decided to keep RTV off the half moon seal... Here it is in its new home.



    Looks good in there. Nice and tight compared to the shrunken old one.

    Then i dropped the newly RTV'ed gasket on...



    Then i spent about 10 minutes trying to jimmy the CCT back in.... without the intake cam, unfortunately. That worked great, until i had the CCT seated and realized that i wasn't going to be able to slide the cam in there with the CCT buttoned down. I then spent the next 20 minutes seeing if i could work both the CCT and the intake cam in there together, but I wasn't having much luck. Does anyone have any tips on a nice orderly way to do this? The Bentley makes the assumption that if you are installing one cam (as I am), that you have BOTH cams out, which i don't. It indicates that you should position the cam chain around both sets of sprockets (intake and exhaust) and then slide the CCT in between. Then drop that whole assembly in together, as a unit. (That still sounds like kind of a handful btw).

    I was thinking that I would be able to position the cam in the chain.. then slide the CCT in, and then rotate that down into the head at the same time. I wasn't having much luck with that tonight, but maybe it will work tomorrow. The fuel and power steering lines wern't making it very easy to maneuver back there. Any advice would be appreciated before i try to ham fist that Rubik's cube tomorrow.

    I was able to take the whole thing out and wipe the RTV off the half moon and the CCT gasket before it set. I think I should be able to still use them since I never got to tighten down the CCT.

    Oh... and i noticed something weird about the CCT I took out of that side of the engine... The lower attach point for the compression tool is bent... See the photo below, as well as the second image which shows the new CCT.

    Old


    New


    That might explain why the CCT compression tool wasn't working correctly. No clue how the lower arm would have gotten bent like that though. Has anyone else seen that before?

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    oh and just for kicks, i took some measurements of the intake cam lobes while i had the cam out... they came out like this:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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    I have no idea how someone bent the old CCT, that would have taken a lot of force.

    The new CCT appears to be not fully compressed, make sure it is before installing.

    Installation:
    1. Fit the CCT into position in the chain without bolting down.
    2. Manipulate the cam sprocket into the chain, ensuring you have the 16 roller count correct.
    Check the 16 roller count as shown at the bottom of this link, note the offsets:
    17748/P1340/004928 - Ross-Tech Wiki
    3. Fit the camshaft and bolt down the cct.

    Note: No force should be used during this procedure, except for the CCT compressor and pulling the cam down against the valve springs.

  17. #15
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    Thanks Tomvw! That Rosstech Wiki image is the clearest description I have seen yet. Just to be clear... bank 1 is cylinders 1-3 right?

    I did some fiddling this morning... and for some reason everything quickly fell into place. Must have been one of those days on Tuesday night when I was attempting this the first time. It was a nice surprise I quickly buttoned down the CCT before the sealant had a chance to cure too much.



    I had rolled back the cams about 30 degrees from TDC as per some of the info/feedback i had seen here on the forum before I removed the cams, so that's why you don't see everything lined up as of yet. There are 16 roller pins between the cam divots however.

    Next up was cleaning up the cam caps.



    While doing so, I found a metal burr stuck into one of the oil channels on the rear most cap:



    Also looks like the inner surface of that cap has been scored a bit, perhaps by that fragment as it made its way into the oil channel? Is this something to be concerned with?

    I also noticed that some of the oil channels on some of the caps had been clogged up by coked oil.



    I made an attempt to clean them up as best as I could:



    Then it was on with caps 2 and 4 (as per the bentley)



    Added some sealant to the mating surfaces of 1 and 7 (again as per the bentley)





    Then tightened them all down! Viola!



    I didn't want to get into taking the CCT compression tool off or moving the cams around this afternoon in order to let the adjusters settle with the cam back in, so I turned my attention to the Valve Cover.

    Before:


    After:


    Not perfect, but better. Amazing how much crap is still stuck in the upper part of the cover by the breather hose connection. I wish there was an easy way to get in there to clean it all out. Unfortunately the access plate is riveted to the cover, so that's a no go.

    I guess I am still a little shocked by how much buildup and varnish this car had in it. It was dealer serviced its whole life (~130k at this point), which I would have assumed meant that it was getting synthetic at every change. Is this level of build up normal even when running synth with regular change intervals?

    Next Up: Get that CCT compressor out... ensure that there are still 16 pins between the cams, and then seal it up again! Can't remember the last time the valve cover was on

  18. #16
    PZ
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    You should remove the caps for #1 and #7. The sealant should not be anywhere near the bearing surface as it will end up on the cam when the cap is tightened down. Basically, no sealant should be behind the behind the oil channels that run along the back of the cam seal area.

    That car did not have synthetic oil for all of it's life but it's not horrible.

    As for under the vent on the valve cover, I am not sure if Easy-Off is compatible with Aluminum, but something like that would get it clean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    You should remove the caps for #1 and #7. The sealant should not be anywhere near the bearing surface as it will end up on the cam when the cap is tightened down. Basically, no sealant should be behind the behind the oil channels that run along the back of the cam seal area.

    That car did not have synthetic oil for all of it's life but it's not horrible.

    As for under the vent on the valve cover, I am not sure if Easy-Off is compatible with Aluminum, but something like that would get it clean.
    Thanks PZ. Any tips on where the sealant should go? The layer i put on was quite thin and only lightly coats the mating surfaces, as i was worried about it gooing up the cams or the oil channels. Now that i think about it, i don't remember there being any sealant on those when i took them off, so maybe that should have been a clue. Unfortunately the bentley isn't very descriptive here.

    I assume synth wouldn't ever break down and varnish like the stuff I'm seeing here?


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    What a great thread!
    Mtech likes this.

  21. #19
    PZ
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    On the cam bridge, the sealant should be forward of the oil channels you cleaned so well. I expect that was some sealant in the grooves. On the small cap, the sealant should be on the outside edges where you are holding it, but not on the inside edges next to the bearing surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_E View Post
    What a great thread!
    Thanks! I'm enjoying documenting this journey. Its great to have such an awesome community of experts to bounce ideas/questions off of.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    On the cam bridge, the sealant should be forward of the oil channels you cleaned so well. I expect that was some sealant in the grooves. On the small cap, the sealant should be on the outside edges where you are holding it, but not on the inside edges next to the bearing surface.
    Got it! Ill pull em off tomorrow and clean and resludge


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    Ok, so i pulled caps 1 and 7, and re-gooped them... Hope i turned PZs words into the correct physical description.





    I buttoned those down again, I then removed the CCT tensioner and i believe the chain came out in the right spot. I rolled the engine back up to TDC, and the photo is with the exhaust cam mark lined up with the cam cap mark. The intake cam mark lags the cam cap mark a bit, but as per previous posts on the subject I think that is a-ok since that is dependent upon the CCT state. Apologies for the dark photo:



    I'm like 95% sure its OK, although i was a little thrown off as the cam mark on the exhaust side doesn't seem to completely line up with a roller link, as the Ross-Tech illustration for Bank 1 that Tomvw supplied in his previous post shows. Perhaps its just an optical illusion with the way the cylinder bank is tilted over. The marked link IS sitting as close to the exhaust cam mark as it can, and its then 16 pins from there to the intake cam cam mark.

    Another question: I had shoved a new rear cam cap into place underneath cam cap 7 before PV noted that I had done the sealant incorrectly. Is there any harm in re-using the cap? or should I just get a new one? Not sure if cramming it in there, and then removing it did anything to harm its sealing capabilities.

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    I think you might have only 15 rollers, but I can't be sure from the pic.
    When there is an offset, roller 16 should be a little to your left of the exhaust cam notch, and roller 1 should be a little to your right of the intake cam notch.
    Note: Having 4 marks is confusing, you should remove 2 of your marks.

  26. #24
    PZ
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    Sealant looks good.
    KSEADUB likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomvw View Post
    I think you might have only 15 rollers, but I can't be sure from the pic.
    When there is an offset, roller 16 should be a little to your left of the exhaust cam notch, and roller 1 should be a little to your right of the intake cam notch.
    Note: Having 4 marks is confusing, you should remove 2 of your marks.
    Thanks tomvw. I'll take some better pictures and post them. And yes, i got a bit slaphappy with the marking paint. I wanted to make sure i marked all the important stuff, and ended up doing more than needed. The second marks to the right of the dots on the rollers were where the cam cap indexes ended up after i rolled the engine back from TDC. They looked better before they ran.


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  28. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    Sealant looks good.
    Awesome. Thanks sir!


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    Ok, some better pictures of how the passenger side cam chain ended up.

    Exhaust cam:



    Intake:


    Overall:


    I'm pretty sure its correct. Let me know if I am wrong!

  30. #28
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    Got the drivers side valve cover off tonight, and ended up doing some general cleaning of the engine bay. I was tired of the slight film of grease that seemed to be covering everything.



    This side seems 'cokier' than the passenger side. Also showed more indications that the valve cover gasket itself was part of the problem (upper left):




    Valve cover gasket came out in three or so pieces and was WAAAAY brittle:



    This side seems like its going to be a little more difficult/cramped than the passenger side. I thought having the CCT on the front would make it easier, but now it seems like the timing belt and cover is in the way.

    I was planning on doing the timing belt following the replacement of the CCT seals and cam plug etc, and once the Valve covers were back on. This was primarily so I could have the option of rolling the engine off TDC if I needed to pull the intake cam out again on this side. Bentley says to roll the cam back a little... as have several other write-ups... but my experience on the passenger side seems to indicate that its not totally necessary. So, the question is, do I HAVE to roll the engine off TDC if I plan on removing the intake cam? Or can the job be accomplished at TDC?

    If I can do it at TDC, I can just put the crank plug in now... and tear the timing belt and cover off before I try to fiddle with the drivers side CCT. It will give me significantly more room to work up there.

  31. #29
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    One more thing...

    Pulled the throttle body gasket off tonight while I was cleaning. Noticed that its gotten pinched by something at some point. Is this a big deal, or can I re-use?


  32. #30
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    The passenger side cam chain timing is set correctly.
    If in doubt, replace the throttle body gasket, I would probably replace an old gasket anyway.


    You can replace the CCT gasket with the timing belt on, but it's easier with it off.
    As you are replacing the TB, I suggest you do it as follows.

    When you do the timing belt, I suggest you replace the following:
    A) Timing Belt
    B) TB Tensioner Damper
    C) TB Tensioner Roller
    D) TB Idler Roller
    E) Water Pump & Gasket
    F) Thermostat & "O" Ring & maybe the Housing

    Also consider replacing:
    G) Serpentine (Accessory) belt
    H) Serpentine belt Tensioner
    I) Check all coolant hoses, replace if required
    J) Coolant


    Instructions for V6 Timing Belt replacement.
    I suggest you carefully, and precisely in the order listed:
    Disconnect negative battery cable.
    1) Turn the crank to TDC. (Cylinder #3 TDC)
    2) Compress the tensioner using an Allen wrench (clockwise) in the tensioner roller, and fit the pin in the tensioner.
    3) Remove the Timing Belt.
    4) Turn the crank counter-clockwise to about 45-60 degrees before TDC. (valves can't hit pistons in this position)
    5) Remove the cam pulleys, and refit leaving them just loose enough to turn freely.
    5a) Replace the CCT gasket etc, and make sure the 16 roller count is correct.
    6) Then use the cam lock bar to turn the exhaust cams so the large holes in the pulley plates are facing inwards (toward each other), and fit the cam locking bar.
    6a) Re-check cam chain timing, correct if required. (Not necessary if chains haven't been touched)
    7) Turn crank clockwise to the timing mark on crank pulley, and fit the crank lock pin.
    8) Fit the water pump, thermostat, tensioner, idler roller, and tensioner roller.
    9) Fit the TB on the crank pulley first, then working in a counter-clockwise direction, fit it around all the other pulleys.
    Make sure the belt is tight everywhere except the section that goes over the tensioner roller.
    10) Release the load on the pin in the tensioner with an Allen wrench in the pulley (clockwise), remove the pin.
    11) Allow a couple of minutes for the tensioner to extend, then pretension the TB, using a torque wrench in the tensioner roller turn counter-clockwise to a torque of 132in-lbs (15Nm).
    12) Tighten the cam pulley bolts to 41ft-lbs (55Nm). (With cam bar still installed)
    13) Remove the cam locking bar and crank lock pin.
    14) Carefully turn crank 2 full turns clockwise back to TDC and recheck timing.
    15) Put the rest of the car back together and go for a drive.

    If you have any concerns about this, please ask before proceeding.

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