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To Change ATF or not to Change ATF: That's the Question!

3K views 47 replies 17 participants last post by  Whirlpool 
#1 ·
I've been reading lot of posts about ATF and they are divided into two main school of thoughts: 1) Never change ATF as it's good for the life of the car; 2) Change ATF every 60-80 K miles.

I personally don't buy the idea that ATF should never been changed. The extreme operating transmission temperature would surely damage the molecular structure of the ATF after some time. So, if you belong to the second group like myself, what interval would you (or have you) changed your ATF?

Also I see some people suggest 4 qt and some 6 qt of ATF. As I am planning to change mine don't know which quantity is the right one. I don't want to buy extra qt because it's darm expensive. Also which online site offer the closest OEM fluid? Many people suggest it's better to get the genuine VW fluid.

I read the detailed instruction at VWvortex site for changing the ATF. It seems a straight forward job but the space below the car is tight. So should I attempt doing it myself or use a shop jack? :wrench:
 
#2 ·
Just my opinions here: Change every 40K~50K miles. Pull the pan to change the filter, and allow plenty of time (overnight) for thorough draining. Expect to use at least 6 quarts if drained as suggested. Use whatever ATF leaves you comfortable. I always use Valvoline MaxLife. And yes, you will need the car on a lift, or at least four jack stands. The car must be pretty level, and filling must be completed with the engine running, and the pan plugged before turning the engine off.
 
#4 ·
At the begining, you don't have the engine running (pump would be dry). You fill through the fill port, until fluid begins to overflow into the drip pan. At that point, the engine is started, which supplies ATF to the TC, cooling lines, and any clutches that are actuated. Filling continues until overflow begins again, at which point the pan should also be warm to the touch (fluid about 40C/104F), usually confirmed with VAG-COM. Shift between Neutral, Drive, and Reverse a time or two to fill those hydraulic circuits. There's no need to shift to 2nd, 3rd, 4th because at idle it will be in first anyway. Always stop the revolving wheels with the brakes before a shift. Then install the fill plug, and shut the engine off.
 
#9 ·
I changed mine at 141000Km in 2013 and I have a 2002. I bought the kit from Blauparts and it came with a filter, gasket, drain nut o-ring, 6 litres and a hand pump for refill. I used up about 5.5L. You do need a second person when you are refilling as you need to put the transmission to Drive and Reverse at idle. It is difficult to do it safely alone unless you have a hoist. You need someone to apply the brake when it is in Drive for safety. I used a pair of ramps for my front wheels and adjust the jack stands level for the rear. Be patient and there are many bolts on the oil pan.

It is recommended to do it as my old fluid smelled burnt. Good luck
 
#10 ·
As I have reported before, I strongly advise doing the full pan drop and filter change, based on personal experience with my 1996 A4.

I did a full pan drop at 65k miles / 9 years when I bought it, then a drain-and-fill at 104k miles / 18 years. The latter caused it to engage late and rev between shifts, so I immediately followed it with a full pan drop and filter change. Coming up on two years later, it is working like a champ.
 
#11 ·
from my VW/Audi factory trained mechanic i use ( 20 years ) ...i asked him about doing a trans service this summer . i'm at 140,000 miles so its a valid question . he knows my car as he has done most of the work on it ( i did the belt service ) . really honest with me as we sat and talked for about an hour each time i show up . so he says ... don't bother if there is nothing wrong . then he points to a car in the lot he drives ( same basic car as my 4motion ) , and say " that car has 190,000 on its original fluid" . then he says that you can't really get all the fluid out and the different fluids run at different pressured and mess with the trans . ill take his word as he has fixed my car and it stayed fixed . that's all they do is German ..but form your own opinion .
 
#14 ·
from my VW/Audi factory trained mechanic i use ( 20 years ) ...i asked him about doing a trans service this summer . i'm at 140,000 miles so its a valid question . he knows my car as he has done most of the work on it ( i did the belt service ) . really honest with me as we sat and talked for about an hour each time i show up . so he says ... don't bother if there is nothing wrong . then he points to a car in the lot he drives ( same basic car as my 4motion ) , and say " that car has 190,000 on its original fluid". then he says that you can't really get all the fluid out and the different fluids run at different pressured and mess with the trans. ill take his word as he has fixed my car and it stayed fixed . that's all they do is German ..but form your own opinion .
This is odd. At most I would characterize it as a sheer coincidence that your tranny has not died yet (although I expect it to happen any moment). No fluid on earth can sustain its viscosity perpetually. You are simply playing Russian Roulette.
 
#17 ·
While the owners manual of my 2001 Passat doesn't explicitly call out a trans oil change interval, I don't find where it says the oil is a lifetime fill. What the owners manual DOES require is a periodic inspection. A inspection could reasonably be interpreted as making sure the level is correct and the appearance is acceptable. If the oil is black, for example, it needs changing right now. This might be caused by slipping clutches, heavy trailer towing in hot weather, or just excessive number of miles of normal use. On this model the sump capacity is so large that it makes sense the oil could last a long time. My suggestion is to change it every 100K miles, unless an inspection dictates sooner. I had mine changed by the dealer around 100K, and there was some improvement in shift smoothness, but still not as good as new. Several users have had long-term success with Valvoline Maxlife, and Valvoline recommends it for certain VW specifications.
 
#24 ·
ZF doesn't know what fluid if used in any of the transmissions they supply to the car maker. The "change the oil" is very good lawyer protection. This 5 speed tranny was used in a lot of european cars and I believe none of them recommend fluid change (Audi/VW and BMW for sure).

I also agree with the second part of the statement, partial fresh fluid might help something or at least won't hurt anything if done properly.
 
#25 ·
IMO the main reason for failure on these transmissions is due to lack of fluid. Probably 1/4 of these failures is caused by owners who drain the tranny when they actually want to change the engine oil followed by the lack of a pump to put the fluid back in once they realize the mistake.
 
#27 ·
I've followed ylwagon's method on my 2003 ATQ. Do drop the pan and change the filter. In fact, if this is the first time you are changing the transmission oil, do it in two parts: first time and, then, a second time 1K miles later. The second filter will catch a lot less dirt, but it will catch some. Some 10K of a year later, do it a third time and compare pictures of the first filter you installed with the second one. Putting in a third filter really assures you that your car's transmission has been cleaned up as much as it is possible through the oil and filter change. And you will literally FEEL the difference: smoother gear transitions, no lag, no more hesitation.
And get your parts and oil from a well-known quality source, preferably in a kit, l. ECS running, Blauparts, or German Auto Parts.


OK great. Will give it a shot myself in my garage. Just to confirm, first you put like 4 qt with engine running and shift gears. Then wait a while and tap another 2 qt to make the filling complete. rite?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
#29 ·
I've followed ylwagon's method on my 2003 ATQ. Do drop the pan and change the filter. In fact, if this is the first time you are changing the transmission oil, do it in two parts: first time and, then, a second time 1K miles later. The second filter will catch a lot less dirt, but it will catch some. Some 10K of a year later, do it a third time and compare pictures of the first filter you installed with the second one. Putting in a third filter really assures you that your car's transmission has been cleaned up as much as it is possible through the oil and filter change. And you will literally FEEL the difference: smoother gear transitions, no lag, no more hesitation. And get your parts and oil from a well-known quality source, preferably in a kit, l. ECS running, Blauparts, or German Auto Parts.
Holly Cow! We are debating on changing ATF once and you are suggesting to change it three times. This is a damn expensive adventure. ATF fluid is very costly.
As you pointed out it may have advantages to do it that way but am not sure if the cost is justified especially for 15+ years old cars.
 
#37 ·
so the argument is to change the oil or not.
All I can say is that you need to watch your engine temperature. When the engine reaches operational temperature, theoretically you can 'hammer' the car.
BUT what everyone forgets is that the gearbox/transmission has to reach full operational temperature as well way longer that the temp gauge hitting 190. This takes up to 10 miles for the oil to be at operational temps, longer in colder climates. If you drive hard when the car is cold (as most people do), then you will do damage and cause degradation of fluids.

I believe that being 'soft' on your car until it reaches operational temperatures will cause all items to last longer, if you have to change ATF often it might just be because of your driving habits. This could explain why people experience the need to change oils, oddly I recall changing ATF/gearbox oil is not big anywhere else besides the America's and American built cars tend to be those that have the ability to check the oil vs European vehicles.

my2cents (and always open to correction)
 
#39 ·
BUT what everyone forgets is that the gearbox/transmission has to reach full operational temperature as well way longer that the temp gauge hitting 190. This takes up to 10 miles for the oil to be at operational temps, longer in colder climates. If you drive hard when the car is cold (as most people do), then you will do damage and cause degradation of fluids.
But does the transmission and ATF really have to reach "full operational temperature" to work properly and avoid damage? My opinion is no, it makes no difference if it's hot or cold. Unlike the situation with the engine, which has condensation and mixture considerations, what does temperature matter to the automatic as long as the fluid remains a fluid?
 
#38 ·
i think changing it every 40-50k is pretty silly (says the guy that is going to change it for the third time in the past 10k miles - tranny problems is my excuse;) )
probably every 100k miles. and it should b around 5qt, and if so it's not gonna b a crime to reuse that 0.5qt if u r gonna run short (i like to say that since they claim it to be for life anyway so...), cuz yeah lets be honest, this gets expensive... gasket $70, filter $60, oil 6x$25 = close to $300.
make sure u pump it up so much it overflows (this is the right way) and DO NOT FORGET TO PUT THE MAGNETS IN AFTER YOU CLEAN THE PAN - i made this mistake once... might not be that crucial but it kept bugging me all the time that i forgot...

AND OEM ONLY!!!!! TRANNY IS TOO IMPORTANT TO GO CHEAP!!!
 
#40 ·
lets be honest, this gets expensive... gasket $70, filter $60, oil 6x$25 = close to $300...AND OEM ONLY!!!!! TRANNY IS TOO IMPORTANT TO GO CHEAP!!!
As I mentioned, a pan gasket, filter and filter grommet, and six quarts of full-synthetic ATF costs me around $50, which averages about $10/year for trans maintenance. I also have no doubt that getting all that stuff from the dealer would be in the neighborhood of $300. But I also know that lots of people are uncomfortable with the idea of using anything other than official German ATF, and that's OK too. Mine's now at 262,000 miles, around 80,000 or so using Valvoline MaxLife, and I'll report when and if I run into transmission problems.
 
#44 ·
FWIW I am the original owner of a 02 V6 and I finally changed my fluid and filter at 245K . Used VW fluid and parts. I really felt I was playing Russian roulette with such high mileage. Made a significant difference in the transmition function. Now at 265K on the car and no transmition issues.
 
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