Rod bearings next...

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  1. #1
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    Rod bearings next...

    Purchased a passat a few weeks ago. It had a low temp thermostat in it. It ran fine with the exception of no heat. did the CLR heatercore clean followed by a 190 degree thermostat. Heat was great but noticed a tic in my upper end when at operating temp. Thinking it was a sludge issue I Did an engine flush but still had the issue. next step,I removed the pan and changed the pickup screen which was surprisingly clean. still not fixed. next we changed the cam chain tensioner thinking it was faulty. Same issue. Out of concern I bought and installed a set of gauges. When The car was warm I noticed that the oil pressure at idle was at 13psi. I did another engine flush this time with what the dealer uses. BG flush who's his $105 a jug. Flushed it and still have the problem. Tonight I pulled the pan again and changed the oil pump this time. I'm at 15psi at idle but no where near where I need to be. Next step looks like the rod bearings.... Getting to be an expert at dropping the subframe

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  3. #2
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    And main bearings.

  4. #3
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    Usually oil pressure specs for all engines are at 2000 RPM.
    I don't know VW specs, but for other engines 15 at idle is OK. Normal oil pressure is about 50-60 PSI at 2000RPM.
    Upper end tick can be located by stethoscope, so you know which cylinder.
    Hydraulic lifters and everything else is usually cleaned by 5 min 2000 rpm idle with 1 quart of ATF before oil change. In worst cases you can keep 1 quart of ATF in oil all the time, just use heavier oil. ATF viscosity at 100C (212F) is between 20 and 30 engine oil. If you use 20W50 oil + 1 quart of ATF it will be about 40.
    Does your Passat have hydraulic lifters?
    I don't see a reason to drop oil pan.
    If you are not sure about knock, drive to machine shop, pay them 10-20 for listening.
    Buy a stethoscope, if you don't have one.
    Last edited by car5car; 01-23-2014 at 04:52 AM.

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  6. #4
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    For VW 1.8ts oil pressure should be above 20 psi warm at idle, 25 to 29 is optimal. Mine is showing between 13 and 15 at idle , not enough pressure for the cam chain tensioner. I wish it was 15 like my mopar race car.

  7. #5
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    And cam bearings.

  8. #6
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    Very interested to see if your oil pressure goes up after crank bearing replacement. Mine is at like 10-12psi at idle, hoping to get to the crank bearings soon.

  9. #7
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    In my experience, you probably have a bad tensioner. It would be very interesting to see if you can get the oil pressure up.
    Bearings are relatively cheap, but I have seen some cars with some really scored bearings, and the oil pressure (and tensioner noise) was OK. Or at least OK for the owner, the light never came ON and he never experienced any issues with abnormal noises.
    Cam bearings, you can't replace because there are none. You will need a new head/camshafts if you wish to fix that area.

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    for rod bearing you don't have to remove sub frame

  11. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tasin1064 View Post
    for rod bearing you don't have to remove sub frame
    It's easier to access the oil pan. How do get the oil pan out without at least lowering the front half of the subframe and unbolting the snub mount?

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigi123 View Post
    In my experience, you probably have a bad tensioner. It would be very interesting to see if you can get the oil pressure up.
    Bearings are relatively cheap, but I have seen some cars with some really scored bearings, and the oil pressure (and tensioner noise) was OK. Or at least OK for the owner, the light never came ON and he never experienced any issues with abnormal noises.
    Cam bearings, you can't replace because there are none. You will need a new head/camshafts if you wish to fix that area.
    Cam tensioner was replaced and cam journals didn't appear to be scored... The light never has come on. One thing we didn't do was take the screen off of the tensioner but I hear that is only a bandaid fix. Ordered some rod bearings yesterday and am going to inspect the upper end next weekend. Luckily my A4 is running good so I have an alternate vehicle to run around in till I get this one sorted out.

  13. #11
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    I would change the lifters before working on the lower end, if you hear "a tick" on the upper side. If this car ever had a timing belt failure and hit the valves, it's possible one or more lifters were damaged. VW recommends changing the lifters when the car has belt failure.
    I have seen cars that will turn on the oil pressure light and still not have upper noise (not cars with clogged filters, but cars with good oil flow, just too low pressure).

  14. #12
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    The noise is only coming from the tensioner. Lifters looked good when intake cam was removed and have never got an oil code just the initial cam change tensioner code. Which prompted me to change the tensioner.

  15. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3 bar View Post
    It's easier to access the oil pan. How do get the oil pan out without at least lowering the front half of the subframe and unbolting the snub mount?
    loose motor mounts , lift from top of the motor ,or put pice of wood on jack and jack it under A/C , done it many times ,

  16. #14
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    Well rod bearings wer replaced today and oil pressure was only up 2 psi to 15.
    Going up to and remove and replace the CCT. Going to inspect the cam journals. If all else check out ok I will be swapping the main bearings

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3 bar View Post
    next step,I removed the pan and changed the pickup screen which was surprisingly clean. still not fixed.
    If I dug all the way down there, I would replace the entire oil pump, not the screen. I replaced my oil pump, although the screen was clean, and oil pressure went from 11psi to 22psi warm idle with new oil pump. Replaced the CCT as well. Horrifying rattle was gone after that.

  18. #16
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    How were the rod bearings? Why didn't you replace the main bearings while the oil pan was out?

  19. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gigi123 View Post
    How were the rod bearings? Why didn't you replace the main bearings while the oil pan was out?
    Bottoms were worn, definitely needed replacement. My buddy was sure that it they were only the problem. Should have got the mains as well. Guess I like pulling the pan. I'm getting pretty good at dropping the subframe. Took us less than 2 hrs and we were taking our time.

  20. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by axenstar View Post
    If I dug all the way down there, I would replace the entire oil pump, not the screen. I replaced my oil pump, although the screen was clean, and oil pressure went from 11psi to 22psi warm idle with new oil pump. Replaced the CCT as well. Horrifying rattle was gone after that.
    I replaced the pump as well. I'm hoping that CCT that I installed was bad. I'm getting tired of looking at the car from underneath.

  21. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3 bar View Post
    Well rod bearings wer replaced today and oil pressure was only up 2 psi to 15.
    Going up to and remove and replace the CCT. Going to inspect the cam journals. If all else check out ok I will be swapping the main bearings
    Main bearings.

    I think it was suggestedin post #2.
    Pressurised oil goes thru the mains first. It will lose pressure if there is too much clearance.

  22. #20
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    I'm getting started on this on mine as well (2001 AUG 1.8T, 182k - had sized cam, timing belt slippage, head rebuilt, oil pump replaced). I actually see only 10psi hot idle on 50wt oil, so I'm very curious/hopeful to see whether there is a major improvement.

  23. #21
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    Did you use stethoscope or something else (long screwdriver) to locate knock? Which cylinder did it come from? Is it valve train noise or timing chain noise? Does knock disappear or increase with higher RPM?

  24. #22
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    Knock disappears at 1000 rpm about when the oil pressure reaches 20 psi. Stethoscope revivals CCT noise. Last time we replaced the CCT the cam journals looked good. Ordered a set of main bearings today just to be on the safe side in case the next new CCT doesn't fix the problem. Want to get this done so I can start my 5spd swap.

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    del

  26. #24
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    Did you measure the clearance in the cam bearings ?

    Did you measure the crank journals ?
    If they are below specs, new bearings or CCT won't help much.

    I think you should replace the engine or do a full rebuild.

  27. #25
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    Didn't have plastiguage. Good thought Tom, will buy some before I tear it down again. Wish I could afford one of those eurospec 2 liters. I have a rebuilt 1.8T but it's on its way into my Corrado!

  28. #26
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    Bikers pretty often replace automatic tensioners by manual tensioners. Sometimes they convert tensioners by installing bolt and nut. I don't know how 1.8 tensioner looks like, maybe you can convert it to manual one. Research Kawasaki KZ1000 tensioners.
    It takes about 10 min to do:
    drill hole
    tap thread
    install bolt and nut.

  29. #27
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    Uh, no. The tensioner has both an oil pressure activated part (which I suppose in theory could be converted to manual tension of some kind?), and an electronic action which changes the timing of the exhaust cam depending on rpm. There is no option for a simpler replacement part here.

  30. #28
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    FYI the exhaust cam timing is fixed, the intake cam has variable timing.

  31. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3 bar View Post
    Knock disappears at 1000 rpm about when the oil pressure reaches 20 psi. Stethoscope revivals CCT noise. Last time we replaced the CCT the cam journals looked good. Ordered a set of main bearings today just to be on the safe side in case the next new CCT doesn't fix the problem. Want to get this done so I can start my 5spd swap.
    well your engine went south , why you keep dumping money into it ? if you decide to do 5 speed swap just get engine and manual tranny for it ,in now days you can bay engine and tranny for around 300 $$ if you pull it your self , during swap you have to modify or replace crank anyways ,

  32. #30
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    Well tasin that's another option that I will keep in mind. I know the bottom end is worn. Finding a good 1.8t in the yard is still a crap shoot since most of them are in there from neglect anyway. The Pull a part is my favorite place. I already have the transmission, pedal assy and shifter for my 5 spd swap just need the clutch flywheel and axles.

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