How to Align Engine to Center Snub Mount?
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  1. #1
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    Exclamation How to Align Engine to Center Snub Mount?

    As some of you might have read my snub mount isn't sitting centered for some reason. Maybe due to a clutch replacement from the previous owner??? I'd like to center it up as it's supposed to be. Yesterday, I unbolted both sides of the subframe that the engine mounts bolt to and removed both subframes. Essentially, the only thing holding the engine up was the jack that I placed under the oil pan. I couldn't get the engine to move 1 mm left or right. I only had one jack so I had to put it all back together. I was wondering if I remove the transmission mounts along with both engine mount subframes will that allow me to move the engine (approximately 1/2 - 1" left towards the drivers side) enough to center it so that's it's not pushed to the right (passenger side) snub mount holder causing it to crack in half? I see that there's plently of allowable movement on the engine mount subframes but don't know how much play there is for the transmission mounts.


    My plan is to support the engine (by oil pan), the black subframe that's just behind the sway bar, and transmission with jacks. Unbolt/remove both sides of subframe engine mount brackets, as well as, transmission mounts and move the engine the appropriate amount to center the snub back up. Then put it all back together starting with the transmission mounts and then the subframe brackets. Does this sound like the appropriate course of action to correct this issue?

    My Passat is a 2000, v6, Manual GLX Wagon.


    I started a new post so that it would come up properly under a search in case someone else has the same issue as me. Here's my original post as reference:

    http://www.passatworld.com/forums/42...nub-mount.html


    Pictures from original post:




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  3. #2
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    Anybody know if my plan will work? I want to go and pickup two compact 2 ton jacks if it is to do the job. I'm thinking it will because how else would someone align the engine to center the snub mount when they put back in the engine and transmission after they've taken it out.


    I'm not sure if you need to remove/unbolt the engine and transmission to do a clutch but don't know how else it would've gotten this way. My grandfather is patient but he's almost 90 and wants his car back in his garage. Especially, since it's going to be getting cold soon.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    you don't move the engine - you move the piece that the snub mount fits in. in the condition yours is in, the bolts will probably snap off. I'd leave it, as it helps restrict movement regardless. the engine usually rides in a vertical direction as throttle is applied.

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    The part that the snub goes into is fine. I can unbolt and move it without any problem except that the part that you're referring to only moves up and down and not left or right. The thing is that I get a lot of shaking whenever I let off the clutch in first or reverse and was thinking that it might be because of the condition the snub is in. The snub is cracked in half! When I had both engine mounts unbolted from the bottom I noticed that the passenger side top nut is not all the way tight and the mount was dangling a little so. Know that I have to tighten that up as well. I just think having a snub that's cracked in half is a bad thing.

  6. #5
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    Check that the motor mounts are in the proper mounting holes. It looks like they may not be in the center hole.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    ah, I get it now. I'm with Paul. as for the snub, they break like that or wear on one side over time. most of us replace them with urethane ones that rarely, if ever, break or wear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    Check that the motor mounts are in the proper mounting holes. It looks like they may not be in the center hole.
    Paul, thank you for replying. I was hoping that you would since I know that you know what you're talking about. I literally unbolted both motor mount subframes and had nothing holding the motor up other than my jack and couldn't get the motor to move at all. My motor mounts were dangling front the top nut. The drivers side was tight as can be but the passenger side was pretty loose which might be why my car shakes when I let off the clutch in first or reverse. The funny thing is that it doesn't shake all the time. It's about 50/50 but it could be what angle my car is at in that particular time. I just don't like my snub being smashed up to the side like that.



    What I first tried was just unbolting the oval bracket that the snub goes into to see if I could move that to the right. It only goes up or down. I then unbolted the whole front to see if I could reposition it and that didn't work as well. The only way I see to fix this is to move the motor but i'm not completely sure how to accomplish that. I have my wife's 2001 Audi 2.8 A6 as a reference and her passenger side does seem like there's a little more room between the engine and the frame than what I have which, to me, confirms that my engine is at a slight angle.


    Paul, could whoever did the clutch from the previous owner have caused this to happen???

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    the engine doesn't have to be pulled off the motor mounts to replace the clutch.

  10. #9
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    If your engine is at a slight angle, maybe you need to replace the motor mounts? My A4 had a bad right mount that let the motor sit pretty far out of alignment.

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    I'm not sure if this info is helpful or not but i'll give you everything that I got.


    -My Passat has NO flex pipes. It appears that they were cut off and a solid pipe was welded into place.

    -The clutch was done about 20k miles ago from the previous owner.

    -When I got the car I knew nothing about the it and had the dealer do the timing belt, replace all the control arms, as well as, strut, and they put on a new engine mount. I believe that it was the drivers side from what I can tell.


    When I asked the service man at my local VW dealer on how he was going to get the bolt out on the lower rear control arm. He said that he was going to drop the rear subframe to get it out and then put the bolt back in the same way. I said why don't you just cut it and put the new bolt in the other side. His response was "That's not the correct way to do it".


    I don't know if any of that was helpful but i'm trying to give all the info that I have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zak99B5 View Post
    If your engine is at a slight angle, maybe you need to replace the motor mounts? My A4 had a bad right mount that let the motor sit pretty far out of alignment.
    Thank you for the reply but as I previously stated I unbolted and removed the whole subframe that the motor mounts bolt to and still couldn't move the engine 1 mm.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    the only way you'd be able to move it (maybe) would be if you unbolted the transmission mounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophile1178 View Post
    I'm not sure if this info is helpful or not but i'll give you everything that I got.


    -My Passat has NO flex pipes. It appears that they were cut off and a solid pipe was welded into place.

    -The clutch was done about 20k miles ago from the previous owner.

    -When I got the car I knew nothing about the it and had the dealer do the timing belt, replace all the control arms, as well as, strut, and they put on a new engine mount. I believe that it was the drivers side from what I can tell.


    When I asked the service man at my local VW dealer on how he was going to get the bolt out on the lower rear control arm. He said that he was going to drop the rear subframe to get it out and then put the bolt back in the same way. I said why don't you just cut it and put the new bolt in the other side. His response was "That's not the correct way to do it".


    I don't know if any of that was helpful but i'm trying to give all the info that I have.
    The alignment of the snub is way off, indicating something major is out of wack with the engine mounts, etc. You won't fix this by simply moving the snub plate around. Yes, the bolt for the rear lower control arm is normally removed with a cut-off wheel. You don't want to drop the sub-frame just for that, although in this case, it could be the source of the alignment problem. You absolutely have to have a flex pipe, otherwise the engine movement will ultimately crack the downpipe, CAT, or even the turbo housing.

    Many people pull the engine to do the clutch. Some people say that is the "right way" to do it. I suspect the hack who did the clutch somehow misaligned the engine when reinstalling, and probably welded a solid pipe after destroying the flex pipe, to save money.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    I'm curious to know what the subframe alignment is. there are two places to put in an alignment pin (it's about 1" in diameter, or larger) between the frame and subframe, and I'd bet yours are not aligned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaythesnork View Post
    i'm curious to know what the subframe alignment is. There are two places to put in an alignment pin (it's about 1" in diameter, or larger) between the frame and subframe, and i'd bet yours are not aligned.
    ding ding ding!!! Winna!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTheSnork View Post
    I'm curious to know what the subframe alignment is. there are two places to put in an alignment pin (it's about 1" in diameter, or larger) between the frame and subframe, and I'd bet yours are not aligned.
    Jay, thanks for the response. I was wondering about those holes. Are the two places on each side of the engine? The only holes that I saw were around the engine mount subframe. There are three alignment holes. I immediately saw this and thought that all three alignment holes should be aligned and they originally weren't. Is there somewhere else that I should look as well? When I originally took the subframe plates off that attache to the engine mounts that hole definately wasn't aligned with the other two. Ironically since i'm working in my grandfathers garage we looked around at all the stuff that he accumulated in his 90 years and found a solid steel 12" long rod that fits exactly in the holes. When I put it back on I tried to align it using this rod. I got it closer but not exact.


    Looking at it last night I'm thinking that I'm going to have to unbolt the whole subframe to get this fixed. I don't believe that the engine mounts have enough play to fix this problem.



    If I unbolt the whole subframe what do I need to support to get this done safely? Last night I went to walmart and bought two 2 ton compact floor jacks to support the tranny and whatever else. Right now I have three jacks available and can get more if needed. It looks to me that the subframe supports the lower control arms, transmission, and engine mounts. Am I missing anything?

  18. #17
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    Just found this from:

    How to replace leaking motor mount VW Passat


    I'm assuming that you're referring to these holes as they were the only ones that I saw. All three holes definately aren't perfectly aligned.




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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    V6 Motor mount DIY, and a snub mount secret - the alignment pin hole can be seen here.

    here's one where you can see how to move the bracket that holds the alignment pin lower hole:

    V6 Motor Mount Change Writeup

    the last one ought to allow you to shift the engine around ever so slightly IFF (if and only if) you loosen the tranny mounts.

    caution! please take care when doing this, as you can drop the motor ON YOUR PERSON AND CAUSE GRAVE HARM TO YOURSELF. I also recall seeing a writeup regarding subframe alignment, and am looking for it - I'll add it to this thread if I can find it.

    ah, just saw you found it and posted it.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    also, just thinking through this, you may have to loosen the lower control arms where they meet the frame/subframe. don't forget to tighten them when the suspension is under load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTheSnork View Post
    ...caution! please take care when doing this, as you can drop the motor ON YOUR PERSON AND CAUSE GRAVE HARM TO YOURSELF...
    Rather than using floor jacks to try and hold up the motor, find an engine support bar to hold it from above. This improves your under car workspace as well as eliminates the possibility of accidentally bumping a jackstand and causing Jay's scenario to become reality...

    Here's what I'm talking about (on a V8 Audi):


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    Thank you for your help everybody. This past sat I tried the easier route to fix this problem and it worked. I unbolted/remove the motor mount brackets and loosened up the tranny mount bolts. I then jacked up the tranny enough for it to be off the subframe. I was then able to move the jack that was holding up the engine towards the drivers side which then lined up everything properly. Everything is good now I just have to put it all back together.

    Unfortunately, when I was unbolting one of the two 13mm bolts on the passenger side it snapped. Fortunately, I was replacing both tranny mounts. Unfortunately, the two bolts are M8x20 10.9 and I can only find M8x20 8.8 around me. Luckily, I found a website called boltdepot.com that has just about everything. I'm going to use the M8x20 8.8 for the time being until I can gather a list of everything that I need to replace so that I can just place one big order. The dealer wanted ~$4 per bolt!!!


    Can somebody confirm all the torque specs that I found:

    Tranny Mounts:
    (2x per side) 13mm (M8x20) transmission mount bolts: 17 ft-lb
    (1x per side) 16mm (M10x70) bolt/15mm nut: 37 ft-lb

    Motor Mount Bracket:
    (2x per side) 18mm aluminum motor mount bracket bolts: 55 ft-lb
    (1x per corner, single use only) 18mm long subframe bolt: 81 ft-lb + 1/4 turn
    13mm engine mount nuts: 17 ft-lb


    Also, what's the correct procedure to tighten and align everything? I found this:

    So, when running the engine with full AC on (to 'set' the right position):
    - Keep the two 'outer' bolts on each tranny mount loose (w/ centers tightened)
    - Keep the lower nut each motor mount loose (w/ upper nut tightened)
    - Keep the snub mount plate loose (w/ snub arm tightened)
    - Then turn off the engine, tighten all the nuts/bolts above (with blue threadlock)


    Was taken from:
    Tip Transmission Mounts - Widgget, ReniA4: Any tips?

  23. #22
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    I did not follow a set procedure to align everything. I aligned the subframe alignment holes, then tightened up the front subframe bolts. Then the rear subframe bolts and connector plates. Motor mounts and sway bar brackets were next with the snub mount bracket last. I did not run the engine. My snub is centered and there is not any excess vibration from the engine.

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    Thanks for the reply Paul. My subframe align hole is pretty good as I haven't touched the rear subframe bolts. It might be off by maybe 2mm but is damn close. What was originally off by a lot was the motor mount bracket alignment hole. Now that I got the engine straight it looks like it'll be fine.

    Does the torque specs that I found seem correct? I'm a little iffy about the motor mount nut.


    I hope that after all this is done that I don't have to do an alignment.

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    PZ
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    I would get an alignment no matter what. You might not need a subframe slide, but it's worth getting it checked. I am not sure about the TQ specs, but the subframe ones sound about right. They are around 120ft/lbs after the 1/4 turn. I don't use a TQ wrench on any of the small bolts. I can tell you I tighten them more than 17, probably 30-40ft/lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Audiophile1178 View Post
    Thanks for the reply Paul. My subframe align hole is pretty good as I haven't touched the rear subframe bolts. It might be off by maybe 2mm but is damn close. What was originally off by a lot was the motor mount bracket alignment hole. Now that I got the engine straight it looks like it'll be fine.

    Does the torque specs that I found seem correct? I'm a little iffy about the motor mount nut.


    I hope that after all this is done that I don't have to do an alignment.
    Thanks for that procedure on alignment. I have a little bit more vibration than i want after changing all my mounts. I am going to try the procedure you listed and hopefully that will fix it.

    I just checked my Bentley Manual, those torque specs you listed above are correct. I cant find the torque specs for the motor mount nut; will update if i can find it. I just tightened it to where i was comfortable with it.

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