Shell's reply to a Rotella T6 question
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  1. #1
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    Shell's reply to a Rotella T6 question

    Hello, Passat folks.

    Yes, this is another post regarding motor oil, but before this turns into yet another rapidly-deteriorating, flame-filled "my oil can beat up your oil" discussion or some such mess, I thought I'd preface this with a little background. A few days ago, I e-mailed Shell the following:
    -------------------------------------
    "Hello.

    I am driving a 2002 VW Passat 1.8T with 91,000 miles on it. I have read good
    things about your previous generation 5w40 Rotella T in VW's 1.8T, even though it is primarily a diesel oil.

    Is the new T6 5w40 a good match for this engine? I have not any
    sludge issues, but the previous Rotella T had a good reputation for keeping
    engines clean. I do not see any reference to use of this new product (on the package) in gasoline engines, where the previous Rotella T did state it was safe for gasoline engines.

    Thank you.

    Steve"
    ----------------------------------

    The following day, this is the reply I received from Shell:

    "Hello Steve,

    Your engine may use Rotella T or T6 since VW allows API SJ or SL
    rated oils. Rotella has not be qualified against the VW
    specifications but meets API SM and prior S ratings for gasoline
    engines. I think you will have good service with... Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5W-40.

    For your engine:
    "Engine oil specifications for 4 and 6 cylinder engines

    The following terms must appear on the oil container singly or in
    combination with other designations.

    Multi-viscosity energy conserving oils such as: VW 500 00, VW 502 00
    Multi-viscosity oil: VW 501 01
    Multi-viscosity oil according to: API-SJ or API-SL, SAE 5w-40 or SAE
    10w-40"

    Regards,
    Keith
    Shell Technical Information


    So, there you go. For what it's worth, here is what Shell had to say with regard to the new T6. Just thought I'd share with the PassatWorld folks.

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  3. #2
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    Great post. Always had a soft spot for the 5W-40 Rotella T when I had mien Passat. It was most available and reasonably priced 5W-40 bar none IMHO.

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    Hi Steve,

    What is you oil change interval ? Have you every done any oil analysis on your old oil through someone like Blackstone ?

    I have been using 5-40 Rotella T on my '02 Ford 7.3 diesel. So far i'm up to 10k miles between changes (per recommendations from the lab) My '99 V6 I have been using Redline 20-50 with the 10k interval as well. But, Redline is more $ then Rotella 'T' so maybe I will contact Shell and see what they say about using it in the V6 gasser (I think it should be same as your 1.8 )and save a little.....

    Thanks for the report.

    Mark

  5. #4
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    I believe Wal-Mart sells Rotella T in gallon jugs. Can't remember the exact price, but I vaguely remember it being about $20 which brings the price down to $5/qt.

    I've been tempted to use it too, but hung back somewhat because of the diesel designation. Now that I'm over 100k and out of warranty I might reconsider.

    Richard

  6. #5
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    Is this the diesel motor oil that is in one gal jugs. If so does it stink as bad as the non-synthetic. The Dino Rosetella stinks, I ran it in my truck, never again as the engine PCV vents to the atmosphere.

  7. #6
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    Thanks for post. Rotella T has been in my car for good duration and can't wait to try the new version

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    I am new to the forum and new to being a Passat owner, but I have done my research and have my opinions.

    If anyone has a Passat on the VW warranty, you would do yourself a HUGE favor to stay with 502 approved oils. If you have engine trouble and VW desides to do an oil analysis, you are busted and likely to recieve zero support from VW.....except a big bill to pay.

    With that said, I am a very passionate fan of HDEO oils (Heavy Duty Equipment Oil). I run Mobil Delvac in all my motorcycles and I will probably run Rotella T6 5w40 in both my son's 2008 Rabbit and my 2009 Passat, once the warranty has run out.

    Rotella T6 5w40 is not, just a Diesel oil. It is in fact, a mixed fleet oil that carries the most recent and strigent gas and diesel requirements. Another note....the whole debate about Rotella T6 being bad for the emissions system has got to be a complete joke. T6 is built for the newest, low emission diesel, turbo engines and it also carries the latest SM rating for gasoline engines.

    If it weren't for the 502 spec oil requirement in VW's, I would be running Rotella T6 in a heartbeat.

    PS. Don't mistake Rotella T (15w40) with Rotella T6 (5w40). The first is a dino and the second is a synthetic. It is probably, a really bad idea to put convential, dino in a turbo charged, gas engine....probably sludge city. Matter of fact, there is a Rotella T5 that is a semi-synthetic that comes in a 10w30 and a 10w40....but probably not a good idea for the 2.0T turbo either.

  9. #8
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    VW allows VW spec 502.0 for that engine .
    Where did they get the idea that VW allows SL/SJ oil ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arpad View Post
    VW allows VW spec 502.0 for that engine .
    Where did they get the idea that VW allows SL/SJ oil ?
    My 2001 1.8T owners manual allows SJ. Or did until the notice
    came out in 2004

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    Big John............ I agree with mostly what you've said except dino oil not being able to handle the turbo.

    I'm not sure I wanna use sm/gf-4 rated dino oil but I wouldn't hesitate to use HDEO dino like rotella t.

    Only reason I wouldn't use rotella 15w40 is in cold winter temp but during warmer weather it'll perform better than some 502 oils

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuPASSAT View Post
    Big John............ I agree with mostly what you've said except dino oil not being able to handle the turbo.

    I'm not sure I wanna use sm/gf-4 rated dino oil but I wouldn't hesitate to use HDEO dino like rotella t.

    Only reason I wouldn't use rotella 15w40 is in cold winter temp but during warmer weather it'll perform better than some 502 oils

    In the past, shuPASSAT, I use to totally agree with you. That is until, I began to further understand OTR Big Haulers, for which this oil was desiged. Those engines are many times turbo charged, but their sump is gallons and gallons of oil...and they usually have one or two oil coolers. The oil getting hot is not an issue in those trucks. It is however an issue in the VW 1.8T or 2.0T. With that in mind, a tiny little 5 quarter sump, lubing a turbo....and tending to get very, very hot.....that is the formula for sludging.

    No question that HDEO Dino (especially Rotella, Delvac and Delo), are phenomenal oils.....I just wouldn't feel comfortable using them in a turbo. I do however us these oils in my motorcycles. But two of my motorcycles (water cooled) have 2,500 mile OCI's and the air cooled one has an OCI of 1,200 miles.

    I must admit though.......two examples that bash my reasoning above.....the post about the guy doing 300k with his Passat. In that post, not ony he.....but another guy that has 200k miles plus....ran standard dino (I think 5w30) in their cars for at least 60k miles. Eventually, they both switched over to synthetic.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
    In the past, shuPASSAT, I use to totally agree with you. That is until, I began to further understand OTR Big Haulers, for which this oil was desiged. Those engines are many times turbo charged, but their sump is gallons and gallons of oil...and they usually have one or two oil coolers. The oil getting hot is not an issue in those trucks. It is however an issue in the VW 1.8T or 2.0T. With that in mind, a tiny little 5 quarter sump, lubing a turbo....and tending to get very, very hot.....that is the formula for sludging.

    No question that HDEO Dino (especially Rotella, Delvac and Delo), are phenomenal oils.....I just wouldn't feel comfortable using them in a turbo. I do however us these oils in my motorcycles. But two of my motorcycles (water cooled) have 2,500 mile OCI's and the air cooled one has an OCI of 1,200 miles.

    I must admit though.......two examples that bash my reasoning above.....the post about the guy doing 300k with his Passat. In that post, not ony he.....but another guy that has 200k miles plus....ran standard dino (I think 5w30) in their cars for at least 60k miles. Eventually, they both switched over to synthetic.
    Good to see someone with great knowledge on oil........ just trying to make conversation

    ps. I see you're on BITOG.com and started the 2009 passat thread. I knew your sig looked familiar

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    Quote Originally Posted by shuPASSAT View Post
    Good to see someone with great knowledge on oil........ just trying to make conversation

    ps. I see you're on BITOG.com and started the 2009 passat thread. I knew your sig looked familiar

    Kind comments, but I would say that I know a little about oil,rather than a great amount. I am simply a student of several topics.....oil being one of them. Honestly, I know just enough to be dangerous.

    The biggest lesson for me in the past year on motor oil is to simply apply some common sense and avoid getting caught up in the hype or fads.

    With that said, my soup of choice for my 2.0TSI will be the old, proven GC (minus the 10k, 20k and 30k services that the stealer will do for free...which I assume will be Syntec 5w40). Of course, a couple of UOA's will either confirm or cause me to change my mind and I will stay with 5k OCI's.

  15. #14
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    What temps do you think the Rotella 15w-40 is good for on a 12V 2.8L? I'm using it in a 1996 Audi I bought and I've been debating switiching to a lighter oil for winter. Car parked outside, temps in the 10-20F range common.

  16. #15
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    Sticking with my Mobil-1 0w40

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    Quote Originally Posted by ONE8T View Post
    What temps do you think the Rotella 15w-40 is good for on a 12V 2.8L? I'm using it in a 1996 Audi I bought and I've been debating switiching to a lighter oil for winter. Car parked outside, temps in the 10-20F range common.
    http://www.shell.com/home/PlainPageS...xpert_faq.html

    This should help. I've used it in colder temp and didn't notice any problems.

  18. #17
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    I've been running the Rotella 5w 40 in my V6 and my turbo 1.8T Passats with no problem. I even run it in my 94 Landcruiser. Too bad that my local Walmart is low on stock most of the time.

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    BigJohn, your assertions are correct only if you add the following addendum to your opinions...the end-user not knowing how to adjust to different oil-change intervals and driving habits. You can easily use regular dino oils with the turbo cars, so long as you are careful about heat-up and cool-down times, and change them on a relatively shorter interval. Most 'regular' owners don't give a fig about those things.

    Arpad, Shell isn't going to short-change themselves, but the VW tests only show that the oils have passed those tests. There are probably tons of oils that will hold up the same, but just weren't put through the testing procedures.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PassitTurbo View Post
    Sticking with my Mobil-1 0w40
    This is exactly what my indie mech told me to do, as I was considering switching.

    And for the good of the masses, I bring back the ferrari discussion regarding oil, its weight and how it affects start up.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles


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    There is Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w-40 and Rotella T synthetic 5w-40. Which of these are you all suggesting should be run in the Passat 1.8T engine? I've been using the "T" only in my Motorcycle for several years with no problems and it's air cooled and I know it gets very hot in the summer. What is the difference between the T and T6 Rotella? Also of interest to you may be that I've been using the Walmart super tech "full synthetic" 5w-30 in my 2000 Passat 1.8T for ~8 years and have 90kmiles on it and have not seen any sludge so far. Although it uses about a quart of oil every 3k or so which doesn't bother me (after all I had a Vega back in the day if you want to talk oil consumption!).

  22. #21
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    Rotella T6 replaces the Rotella T syn.

  23. #22
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    swcrow17 -"And for the good of the masses, I bring back the ferrari discussion regarding oil, its weight and how it affects start up.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles"

    Holy Cow! How many supercars does this guy own?

    (pay no attention to spelling in this next sentence...)
    He mentions a 550 and 575 Maranello, a Lambo Murcialago, a Maybach 57, an Enzo ...have I missed any?

    He also apparently has an Expedition, just for kicks.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Jollimore View Post
    BigJohn, your assertions are correct only if you add the following addendum to your opinions...the end-user not knowing how to adjust to different oil-change intervals and driving habits. You can easily use regular dino oils with the turbo cars, so long as you are careful about heat-up and cool-down times, and change them on a relatively shorter interval. Most 'regular' owners don't give a fig about those things.

    Arpad, Shell isn't going to short-change themselves, but the VW tests only show that the oils have passed those tests. There are probably tons of oils that will hold up the same, but just weren't put through the testing procedures.

    I would agree with you Troy. Matter of fact, and as I mentioned, I have changed quiet a bit in the past year in regard to my assertions about oil. I use to be a 100% synthetic guy....would never consider anything else. Well, after studying close to 25 UOA's in great detail and my own experience with no less than 15 different oils in my bikes....I have moved to dino HDEO's.

    At this point, in all my vehicles and my kids cars, I would probably have dino in them all, except for the numerous, short trips and weather extremes that we have to deal with. In our situation, synthetic will stay in our cars.

    But I gotta tell ya man....I am not pouring dino in my 2009 Turbo Passat and I will stay with a 502 rating. My best friend has had a Passat since 2003 (1.8T)....and he cheap charlie'd the service with 5k mile OCI's of quality 5w30 and has spent over $4,000 on engine repair and the car only has 140k miles on it. I am not taking that chance.

    The only compromise I will make when the warranty has run out will be to begin using Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w40.

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt98B5 View Post
    swcrow17 -"And for the good of the masses, I bring back the ferrari discussion regarding oil, its weight and how it affects start up.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles"

    Holy Cow! How many supercars does this guy own?

    (pay no attention to spelling in this next sentence...)
    He mentions a 550 and 575 Maranello, a Lambo Murcialago, a Maybach 57, an Enzo ...have I missed any?

    He also apparently has an Expedition, just for kicks.
    What I'm more impressed with is his study of lubricants and the points at which they get to "operating" temp!

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
    I would agree with you Troy. Matter of fact, and as I mentioned, I have changed quiet a bit in the past year in regard to my assertions about oil. I use to be a 100% synthetic guy....would never consider anything else. Well, after studying close to 25 UOA's in great detail and my own experience with no less than 15 different oils in my bikes....I have moved to dino HDEO's.

    At this point, in all my vehicles and my kids cars, I would probably have dino in them all, except for the numerous, short trips and weather extremes that we have to deal with. In our situation, synthetic will stay in our cars.

    But I gotta tell ya man....I am not pouring dino in my 2009 Turbo Passat and I will stay with a 502 rating. My best friend has had a Passat since 2003 (1.8T)....and he cheap charlie'd the service with 5k mile OCI's of quality 5w30 and has spent over $4,000 on engine repair and the car only has 140k miles on it. I am not taking that chance.

    The only compromise I will make when the warranty has run out will be to begin using Rotella T6 Synthetic 5w40.
    Big John, I've ran rotella 15w40 many times up to 4-5K miles(currently 187k) and I don't have UOA to show for it but I am sure it held up just fine.

    I'm sure if your friend changed it say......... every 3k miles it'll be just fine even with SM/GF-4 rated dino oil. You know HDEO is nothing like the GF4 5/10w30.

    Now, your 2009 I wouldn't even think about using other than approved oil due to warranty.

    I'm sure you know your stuff but just saying...... have some faith in dino oil

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