Cold air intake on a v6
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  1. #1
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    Cold air intake on a v6

    Anyone out there put a cold air intake on your v6? How does it run now? What kind of gains does this mod give a v6?

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    From what I have heard it does a lot more for throttle response than raw HP. I would guess 5-8 HP (Conservative estimate) and possibly 10-15% increase in throttle response

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    Thanks, Sounds like the best first step.

    Anyone installed the cold air intake, exhaust, and a chip on a v6? My GLX is a manual and I think it will really come alive with these mods.
    Feedback is apreciated :bow:

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    vwpassatboy has all three..

    the CAI will not increase your HP by that much, but it will sound cool.

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    Re: Cold air intake on a v6

    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB
    Anyone out there put a cold air intake on your v6? How does it run now? What kind of gains does this mod give a v6?
    i've got an AEM cold air intake on my v6. aside from just looking cooler, it makes the intake a little louder. i also noticed better throttle response as well as slightly improved fuel efficiency (before I put my supercharger on anyway :wink

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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB
    Thanks, Sounds like the best first step.

    Anyone installed the cold air intake, exhaust, and a chip on a v6? My GLX is a manual and I think it will really come alive with these mods.
    Feedback is apreciated :bow:
    Yea, definatly, the V6 is already a great engine. I felt awesome pull at 65 or so degrees the other night. With those mods you will definatly love your car. I have never driven a manual passat, but I am sure it is a blast. There is another post on here a few threads down. I will find the link and post it if I can. It details putting some heatsheilding on the intake pipes to help decrease the intake temperature. I think thats a great idea. As for a chip, from what I have read, they slightly increas midrange pull, and raise the rev limiter/speed limiter.

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    A number of has have had all three. On a NA engine, any benefits would be marginal. I have yet to see a dyno chart that has shown any significant improvement because of any of the 3 mods. The main benefit of the chip is the elimination of the speed governor & the bump in the rev-limiter. The intake & exhausts main benefit is the cooler sounds each produces.
    Better throttle response? :roll: We've covered that topic in the past. Its not really something that is quantifiable & is likely the product of a "butt-dyno" placebo effect. The only & TRUE test of "increased throttle response", is improved 0-60 times... "ICT" (improved throttle response) is subjective. On NA engines, gains from any of these 3 items will be negligable & NOTHING compared to what they can do in a forced induction engine.
    I had a V6.... and I did all three mods (and a few more).... I got nothing in the way of better performance, but it DID sound a lot cooler - oh, and the elimination of the speed governor (and bump in the rev-limiter) was cool too. If I could offer some advice, do suspention mods first if you really want to make a V6 perform... do everything else after. On a turbo car, it could go in any order....

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    Re: Cold air intake on a v6

    Quote Originally Posted by baritb
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenB
    Anyone out there put a cold air intake on your v6? How does it run now? What kind of gains does this mod give a v6?
    i've got an AEM cold air intake on my v6. aside from just looking cooler, it makes the intake a little louder. i also noticed better throttle response as well as slightly improved fuel efficiency (before I put my supercharger on anyway :wink

    And as far as I know, the AEM CAI was never finished or produced. I have been bugging them for about 2 years - asking every couple of weeks if they were even close to completion. I did this regularly up until a few months ago when I decided to sell my car. Maybe you had a hook-up at AEM. Either way, I'd love to see pics of what the final product was.

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    http://www.clubb5.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57515

    Joe, check out his new pic thread. :wink:

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    Quote Originally Posted by julianfang
    http://www.clubb5.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57515

    Joe, check out his new pic thread. :wink:
    yep just saw that! She's quite a beauty! I LUST FOR FORCED INDUCTION! Hehehe...

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    I cannot decide:

    1. SC

    or

    2. Custom interior... :???:

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by julianfang
    I cannot decide:

    1. SC

    or

    2. Custom interior... :???:
    YOu're kidding right?!?! If I could do it all over again, I'd skip half of my body work to get that SC! Race a Stage3 1.8T Passat & bet them for leather interiors... walk away with both mods.

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    I challenge anybody to explain how a cold-air intake could possibly increase throttle response, especially without increasing power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Msquared
    I challenge anybody to explain how a cold-air intake could possibly increase throttle response, especially without increasing power.
    amen.

    BUT I will tell you this... my S2000 antenna GREATLY improved my throttle response. :-P


    still waiting on that pic of the AEM CAI.... I really want to see it. Its been a LONG time coming. Gotta see it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Msquared
    I challenge anybody to explain how a cold-air intake could possibly increase throttle response, especially without increasing power.
    Well, cold air intake will put colder air through your engine, colder air is more dense, therefore it will slightly increase power (like I said, very minor, 5 horsepower would be an extreme leap) you don't really need more HP to increase throttle response. If your airflow is less obstructed (forced induction CAI) your throttle will be slightly more responsive.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWPassatGLX155
    Quote Originally Posted by Msquared
    I challenge anybody to explain how a cold-air intake could possibly increase throttle response, especially without increasing power.
    Well, cold air intake will put colder air through your engine, colder air is more dense, therefore it will slightly increase power (like I said, very minor, 5 horsepower would be an extreme leap) you don't really need more HP to increase throttle response. If your airflow is less obstructed (forced induction CAI) your throttle will be slightly more responsive.
    Yeah this is basic automotive principal... which we are ALL familiar with & have discussed ad nauseum in the past. What Msquared & the rest of us are waiting for are dyno slips that quantify increased HP (no matter how insignificant) and track slips (before & after) proving the increased "throttle response". Sorry... butt dynos dont count.


    And explaining that to Msquared is like a 5th grader explaining the theory of quantum mechanics to a college physics professor. :wink: :-P

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    Yea, I figured he would know that. Hard to be part of a car club and not know cooler is better . I was just explaining it for the hell of it. As dyno's are typically somewhat expensive to run unless you specifically know the person, I doubt anyone would go out and dyno their car just to find out HP gains from a CAI. It would be nice, but probably hoping for too much. For now my butt dyno works fine 8)

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    So..... are you guys talking about this??




    [/code]

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWPassatGLX155
    Well, cold air intake will put colder air through your engine, colder air is more dense, therefore it will slightly increase power (like I said, very minor, 5 horsepower would be an extreme leap)
    Well, B5s already come from the factory with cold-air intakes. They draw air from the front of the grill, and it can't get any colder than that. The only possible benefit of an aftermarket intake is to provide greater flow due to bigger openings. In my experience, many or all of these supposed CAIs actually result in warmer air being ingested, since they ususally draw in from somewhere behind the grill. In the absence of tests measuring intake air temps, I do not believe any aftermarket so-called CAI is resulting in a denser charge of air to the engine.

    you don't really need more HP to increase throttle response.
    Well, that's true. Peak power has absolutely nothing to do with throttle response. By definition, throttle response is not a peak-power situation. Throttle response is a very short-duration (like, much shorter than one second) event that entails the time it takes the engine to stabilize into steady-state air and fuel flow following an opening of the throttle valve(s). This is affected by air/fuel metering, manifold vacuum and airflow speeds, and the mass of the air between the throttle valve and intake valves. Basically, you can improve response time by reducing the mass of air to be accelerated (moving the throttle valve closer to the head, as with the individual butterflies in an M3), reducing the amount of acceleration of the air (by starting with a higher air velocity and/or higher vacuum), and/or improving the fuel metering during the transition. CAIs accomplish none of these things.

    If your airflow is less obstructed (forced induction CAI) your throttle will be slightly more responsive.
    Less intake restriction can't benefit throttle response. That's because the engine will only benefit from decreased restrictions at or near peak horsepower rpms and loadings. If you read my preceding paragraph, it becomes clear that a decrease in restriction cannot reduce the mass of the air, decrease the amount it needs to be acceleration, nor improve fuel metering. Less intake restriction could improve peak power if all else remains equal. Occasionally, some really screwed up factory intake systems benefit in power from CAIs - Chevy Impala SS is a great example, where the intake system had a restrictive silencer on it and replacing it with aftermarket parts made a significant difference in power (and noise!). I have not seen evidence that B5s fit that description, but I'm open to it if anybody has some they can share.

    PS - Boeser, I'm just a social worker, but thanks for the compliment!

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWPassatGLX155
    As dyno's are typically somewhat expensive to run unless you specifically know the person, I doubt anyone would go out and dyno their car just to find out HP gains from a CAI. It would be nice, but probably hoping for too much. For now my butt dyno works fine 8)
    I should add that do know someone with a dyno, and one of my best friends used to be that shop's technical director and dyno operator. All they did all day was modify cars (a lot or a little, depending on the customer). So I've seen plenty of before/after dynos of lots of individual parts, CAIs among them. As I said, Impalas are some of the few cars I've seen where CAIs made a significant (in the scientific sense of the term - as in, not due to chance) difference.

    PS - You'd be amazed at the parts that don't do what their ads say they will. I'm telling you, if anybody with time to kill really got down to testing these parts and documenting everything, there could be some really winnable lawsuits flying around (remember the Splitfire debacle?). If I were rich, maybe I'd set up The Foundation for Truth in Aftermarket Advertizing in a big shop with a dyno and just start taking these charlatans on.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWPassatGLX155
    Yea, I figured he would know that. Hard to be part of a car club and not know cooler is better . I was just explaining it for the hell of it. As dyno's are typically somewhat expensive to run unless you specifically know the person, I doubt anyone would go out and dyno their car just to find out HP gains from a CAI. It would be nice, but probably hoping for too much. For now my butt dyno works fine 8)
    A company like AEM can easily afford a before & after... no manufacturer to date has given a conclusive chart.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pat2000
    So..... are you guys talking about this??




    [/code]
    another supercharger

    Is that the AEM intake or is that A LOT of heatshielding. :wink:

  24. #23
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    Msquared is right on top of it.. ( I LOVE this topic )

    Our cars have a CAI, from the factory, and it is a pretty good one. While it is adequate for it's intended use (not too spirited driving and being quiet), a little tinkering does help. However you look at it, the stock system is pretty good out of the box and has plenty of room to improve, which says something for VAG's engineering.

    Most of the aftermarket intakes people are buying loose the frontal grill intake (coldest air you can get into the car) in favor of an opening under the hood, behind the radiator.

    As we all know, the engine compartments on these cars are sealed enough that most if not all the airflow in them is via the radiator.

    This is why the factory plumbs a system to the MAF, that is only open to the outside. Granted, it has a few restriction in it that can be easily fixed, but those are primarily for noise control. Even with the noise that the mods add, it is minimal.

    With most aftermarket systems, there is some air coming in from where the stock intake is removed, but the aftermarkets CAIs are no longer pulling just cold air. There is usually some hotter air from the engine compartment ingested as well.

    I am not sure about the kits with shields, some here like them, but they might still be subject to hot under hood air.

    Also, there is debate about just how much difference the hotter air makes when pulled into the engine, but the 1.8T guys have noticed there can be affects from it. This is why the IC misters (Chas) and the S4 liners (Most all of us) work so well. The idea is to cool the air as much as possible, hence the intercooler and vents, etc. the factory uses.

    The increased airflow only really comes into play when you are revving up the engine, 5500 RPM appears to be the magic number. The turbo guys have seen differences at higher RPMs, as the airbox starts to be a little restrictive when that much air needs to go through it. The added intake area helps the V6 to a degree, but it is not as responsive as the turbo engines are to tuning.

    With the Colorado Airbox Mod (COAM) (Minnesota Mod (MAM) does not apply to the V6, as the MAF is outside the airbox), you can get more cold air to the filter, which helps both engines.

    The added intake to the airbox just allows the engine to breath a little more freely, which is what most aftermarket CAI are supposed to do. However, you are opening the intake up for more air flow (good thing) by allowing hotter air from the engine compartment (bad thing).

    If someone really wants a cone filter, mount it inside a stock airbox with an extra intake (COAM) on it.

    I suspect a lot of the impetus behind the aftermarket systems is looks, which is fine, make your car as fancy as you want. If you want more throttle response or freer breathing, try to keep the 'concept' of the original intake intact. The real goal is to keep the air as cool as possible until it hits the intake manifold.

    Insulation and shielding on the stock intake has been tried as well, with some successes.

    Just my $.05 (long post) worth,

    Mark

    (EDITed for typos)

  25. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastLane
    Msquared is right on top of it.. ( I LOVE this topic )

    If someone really wants a cone filter, mount it inside a stock airbox with an extra intake (COAM) on it.

    I suspect a lot of the impetus behind the aftermarket systems is looks, which is fine, make your car as fancy as you want. If you want more throttle response or freer breathing, try to keep the 'concept' of the original intake intact.

    Insulation and shielding on the stock intake has been tried as well, with some successes.

    Just my $.05 (long post) worth,

    Mark
    I was actually thinking about doing something similar to this. Would mounting the cone intake from an EVO inside the stock airbox work?

  26. #25
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    [quote="julianfang"]
    Quote Originally Posted by pat2000

    Is that the AEM intake or is that A LOT of heatshielding. :wink:
    No. The AEM unit that was being designed was supposed to be similar to the 2.0L unit. Just like the majority of AEM products it would have probably been routed to somewhere below the engine.

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Msquared
    Basically, you can improve response time by reducing the mass of air to be accelerated (moving the throttle valve closer to the head, as with the individual butterflies in an M3), reducing the amount of acceleration of the air (by starting with a higher air velocity and/or higher vacuum), and/or improving the fuel metering during the transition. CAIs accomplish none of these things.
    so is this the main benefit of "ram-air" - poor mans supercharging?

    Occasionally, some really screwed up factory intake systems benefit in power from CAIs - Chevy Impala SS is a great example, where the intake system had a restrictive silencer on it and replacing it with aftermarket parts made a significant difference in power (and noise!). I have not seen evidence that B5s fit that description, but I'm open to it if anybody has some they can share.

    PS - Boeser, I'm just a social worker, but thanks for the compliment!
    My Jeep has the BS silencer too. I'm actually designing an intake for her right now. K&N, Volant & Brag have made intakes for the Liberty's 3.7L V6 - but aside from cooler sounds (which the K&N doesnt have b/c it retains the silencer), the reported gains have been sketchy at best. While I realize I probably wont get any significant increase in performance with just the intake, I really feel the silencer unit is pretty restrictive. The fact that the otehr manufacturers arent getting any real gains (+4 I think off of a dyno), I also think a lot has to do with heat soak... none of them shield the intake cone or piping from the engine. I think my design (which will have ram-air effect in its design) might have some better results. Of coarse I could be mistaken & fail miserably. But I hope not.... At worst, I'll just duplicate the other manufacturers's results. I just dont wanna spend that kind of dough on an intake.

    BTW, back to B5's.... I put on a cheapo ractive filter & I did get a cooler sound... no butt-dyno improvements though... it just sounded faster.

  28. #27
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    another supercharger
    Is that the AEM intake or is that A LOT of heatshielding. :wink

    Just the stock air box covered by heatshielding
    Personally think the stock air intake is already good enough, but the supercharged engine will produce a lot of heat more than stock one when running, so made this by myself to keep the air flow cool down

  29. #28
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    I have CAI from BMC (Italian Co. supplying F1 Ferarri,Minardi,etc.they have dealers in US) called CDA 85/150, DigiTec chip (claimed +18 hp) lightened pulleys, FPR from FSE (U.K.),rear Remus and some other mods out of performance area.
    See this thread with pics of my car ('99. V6 Wagon 4Mo,Tip)

    http://www.clubb5.com/forums/viewtop...278&highlight=

    Did not measured dyno but in direct contact with B5.5 V6 4Mo,Wagon,Tip with Supersprint exhaust (otherwise stock) and B5.5 1.8T 4Mo,Tip, I beat themon +/- 400 m for approx. 50-60 m.Best efect after instaling I had on chip and crank pulley(not underdriven)

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by julianfang
    I cannot decide:

    1. SC

    or

    2. Custom interior... :???:
    Good Lord!!!! THE SUPERCHARGER! LOL

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