Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount install at 61K...
 

ECS timing belt kit, ECS crank pulley, dealer H20 pump, Greedspeed snub mount. Why ECS? Good prices, good reputation, good participation here at CB5, family-owned, multi-generation car nut VW business. The fact that they sell racing pistons and rods for this car makes me want to give them my business. http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif in my book.

Good thing I still have the Scirocco, though it feels like mashed potatoes compared to the Passat! I started replacing the timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount last Friday (11/08), and I'm STILL working on it. But it's almost done! Here's the play-by-play:

Friday evening: Front wheels on ramps. Removed front bumper via Herman's instructions:
http://home.attbi.com/~hhong4/oettingerinstall.htm
Removed front end ("lock carrier") and timing belt change via instructions on Audiworld:
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng35.shtml
Everything went w/o incident.
Note: Audi instructions were for manual tranny. Since I have a Tip, I can't remove the radiator and merely "set aside" the front end because of attached tranny cooling lines. I had to support the lock carrier on boxes and a jack stand, leaving the tranny lines attached on the driver side, and angling the lock carrier away from the passenger side. I had plenty of room to work, but it's kind of awkward.
Note: I was unable to remove the front bumper because the headlight "carriers" were over the top of the bolts. So I just left the bumper on. It actually made it easier when "set aside" - two boxes underneath the carrier plus the jackstand under the bumper made a great three-point support.
Note: Before pulling loose and setting aside the lock carrier, be sure to push the air temp sensor wiring back through the lock carrier to give it some slack. Also double-check that all necessary connections have been disconnected, i.e. radiator hoses and sensor wire, A/C wire on pax side, I/C hoses, etc.

Saturday: Proceded to remove and replace the timing belt, tensioner, water pump, and crank pulley. Pretty standard stuff - remember to make timing reference marks, count your teeth between the timing marks, and don't rotate the crank or camshaft during this procedure (Have to remove intermediate shaft gear to get water pump off/on. This is not hard, and the orientation of the intermediate shaft is not important since it does not drive a distributor.) What WAS hard was getting the water pump pulley bolts (allen) off - good luck. I used one bolt as a hold to get the other two loose, then I got the first bolt off by using a PS pulley bolt as a hold and squeezing the belt tight so that the water pump couldn't turn. Took my time and thoroughly cleaned the whole naked front of the engine with Simple Green. Put new pump on, new belt with new tensioner, and the ECS pulley (significant underdrive requiring new belts - don't believe what the website says, I got this straight from Tom), the new pulley is .723 lbs. vs. 4.446 for the OEM. Nice unit. But at 5:00 PM ARGH - ECS sent belts with the pulley ($10 each) but the alternator belt is just barely too long (it's a 505 - 50.5 inches). Rush to Pep Boys then Checker, the next smallest I can get is a 485, so I get home and it's just barely too short - so I give up for the evening, except for some tinkering - having the front end off dramatically improves access to the turbo, so I took advantage and improved my heatshielding.
Note: The ECS timing belt kit has the 153-tooth belt. My pre-300,000 engine number car comes with a 152 tooth. At this point, I can see no difference - with the new belt on, every mark stays lined up after multiple 720-degree crank rotations.
Note: I also replaced the water pump belt, courtesy of NAPA.
Note: The snub mount seemed too small. I posted here and got several pro-and-con replies.
Note: The OEM timing belt was in perfect condition. The OEM tensioner seemed to be in fine condition, too - but it is obviously a very poor design. Glad to be replacing it with a simple spring tensioner. If you haven't done it yet, DO IT NOW, you'll be glad you did...

Sunday: A day of rest! I did not even go out to the garage to look at the car...

Monday: After many calls looking for a 495 belt, I find a 500 belt at NAPA - good ol' NAPA. (Incidentally, 500 is the size that Unorthodox Racing lists for their pulley.) Alternator belt install is all I have time for tonight.

Tuesday: I was inspired by Eric's (MisterTam) DV page to measure my DV. It starts opening at a measly 7 in/Hg. I opened it up and looked at it for the first time. Yes, it is well made (Hyperboost). But Pete (from Stratmosphere) has quit answering my emails (I was asking for a stiffer spring). So I decide to investigate washers... Also, after calling Greedspeed and looking at more replies to my post, I decide to go ahead and try the snub mount. There's a couple of millimeters clearance top-and-bottom, but this is supposed to be there at idle to isolate vibration. But I can't get it on! Even with a sledgehammer, this thing will not pop over the retaining groove, and I don't want to hit it too hard because I don't want to bend the intake pipe that runs behind the snub mount post...

Wednesday: I find some excellent thick flat washers at the hardware store. I install one washer so now the DV starts opening at 9 in/Hg. Also, after reading Herman's snub mount install page, I learn that I can position the snub mount while re-installing the lock carrier, using the tightening of the lock-carrier bolts to pop the mount on! How elegant. So that's what I set out to do tonight. I get the DV re-installed, do a little more heat-sheilding work, get the lock carrier placed, get things re-connected, and I'm just about ready to tighten down the lock carrier and I realize that I left the fan off!!! I forgot to bolt the fan back on to the fan clutch!!! Doh!

So that's where I am now. Hope to get it all back on tonight (Thursday), but it may take one more day... I'll edit this post as things finish up.

Thursday: No Dice.

Friday: Get lock carrier off and put fan on. Good thing - I had also forgotten to torque the water pump pulley bolts.

Saturday: Nothing

Sunday: Finished 'er up. Snub Mount was a beast. Tightening the lock carrier bolts did not pop the snub mount in, but it did take up all the clearance. So I had to loosen the bolts enough to get a crowbar in behind it (loosening the three mounting ring bolts in the process), then tighten the lock-carrier bolts, then "pop!" the crowbar popped it right on. Then, whilst putting the final torque (50 N-m = 37 ft-lbs) on the lock-carrier bolts, my torque wrench decides to fail and I strip one of them (should've bought Craftsman or Snap-On). The bolt doesn't strip - the threads in the mount are gone. I also lost one of them (lock-carrier bolts). So I am missing one bolt, and another is held in at about 5 ft-lbs with Loctite. ARGH... this is what happens when you drag a project out too long...

But it started first crank and runs like a bat outta hell. I'll post reviews after I've lived with them for a couple of weeks, but here's some quickies:

ECS Crank Pulley: http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif - it does exactly what I wanted it to do.

Greedspeed Snub Mount: http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthdown.gif - increased engine feedback (noise and vibration) and smoothe<![CDATA

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (Rusty)
 

GREAT writeup, Rusty! I'm getting brave just reading it!

Hey 1BigEd! We gonna do this thing or what? Impex is waiting, though I might hafta check prices at ECS after Rusty's thome.

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (Rusty)
 

Rusty,

Quite a write-up! I haven't had time to read it, so I printed it (and the links you posted) to read during my "evening constitutional"! http://www.clubb5.com/images_forum/biggrin.gif

My wife just called to tell me that Mr. Brown just delivered my order from ECS. Looks like it's gonna be a big "timing belt weekend" http://www.clubb5.com/images_forum/crazy.gif for me!

Thanks for the update! I'll post my experiences next week.

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (DaddyMatt)
 

use some wd-40 to lube snub mount before mounting.

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank ... (PASSAT2001.5)
 

Yup, that's what Greedspeed said to use - thanks!

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank ... (Rusty)
 

Whilst you are at it, how about the EFK (Electric Fan Kit)?? I did that and it's a very nice mod, loose weight and the engine runs a bit smoother. I bought the SPP kit (expensive) but CRD99 did this himself for FAR less $$!!

Just an idea!

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (Rusty)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>ECS timing belt kit, ECS crank pulley, dealer H20 pump, Greedspeed snub mount. Why ECS? Good prices, good reputation, good participation here at CB5, family-owned, multi-generation car nut VW business. The fact that they sell racing pistons and rods for this car makes me want to give them my business. http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif in my book.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, Thanks! We'll try to keep up the high expectations

Rusty, drop me a email to what was the final sizes on the belts that you used, we are trying to keep track of this.

Thanks! http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (ECS Tuning-Tom)
 

Re: EFK - Yup - if I'd only had the money... But I do want to dyno just the crank pulley change, so that's OK for now. But an EFK is defintely on my list - at 6000 ft, I need all the normally aspirated horsies I can get!

Re: Thanks, Tom - I will be emailing - what's the best e-mail address to use (the only one I can find on your website is andyeuro@mindspring.com)? Alternator belt size was 5050500, but I think a 5050495 would be "perfect"ly in the middle of the tensioner's range. The A/C belt fit fine.

Special for DaddyMatt: I added a couple of notes to original post:

Note: I was unable to remove the front bumper because the headlight "carriers" were over the top of the bolts. So I just left the bumper on. It actually made it easier when "set aside" - two boxes underneath the carrier plus the jackstand under the bumper made a great three-point support.
Note: Before pulling loose and setting aside the lock carrier, be sure to push the air temp sensor wiring back through the lock carrier to give it some slack. Also double-check that all necessary connections have been disconnected, i.e. radiator hoses and sensor wire, A/C wire on pax side, I/C hoses, etc.



<![CDATA[Re: EFK - Yup - if I'd only had the money... But I do want to dyno just the crank pulley change, so that's OK for now. But an EFK is defintely on my list - at 6000 ft, I need all the normally aspirated horsies I can get!

Re: Thanks, Tom - I will be emailing - what's the best e-mail address to use (the only one I can find on your website is andyeuro@mindspring.com)? Alternator belt size was 5050500, but I think a 5050495 would be "perfect"ly in the middle of the tensioner's range. The A/C belt fit fine.

Special for DaddyMatt: I added a couple of notes to original post:

Note: I was unable to remove the front bumper because the headlight "carriers" were over the top of the bolts. So I just left the bumper on. It actually made it easier when "set aside" - two boxes underneath the carrier plus the jackstand under the bumper made a great three-point support.
Note: Before pulling loose and setting aside the lock carrier, be sure to push the air temp sensor wiring back through the lock carrier to give it some slack. Also double-check that all necessary connections have been disconnected, i.e. radiator hoses and sensor wire, A/C wire on pax side, I/C hoses, etc.



[Modified by Rusty, 8:37 AM 11/15/2002]

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (Rusty)
 

How did you get readings for your DV?

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (ChkYaHead)
 

Same way Eric did in his DV test - used a vacuum pump with a gauge attached. Mine was free - inherited from Dad... you can buy the Mighty-Vac, like Eric.

http://home.attbi.com/~mistertam33/T...Valve_FACE.htm

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (Rusty)
 

Rusty,

Cool! Thanks for the extra notes. It looks like tomorrow is out; I didn't bother clearing out space in the garage since Saturday's forecast was ~65, cool (for Fla.) and ~20% chance of rain. I checked the forecast this morning and tomorrow it's gonna wind and rain like all day! (and then be clear and cool for the next 10 days! I guess tomorrow just wasn't meant to be.) Oh well, this will give me some more time to "study up" for the operation. I just bought the Haynes manual and it is great! I'd crawl over a pile of $99 Bentley CD's to get to it, even if it hadn't cost only $15! Way more detail and lotsa pictures! Definitely good for some rainy day reading.

Good note on the air temp sensor wiring...I think even Haynes missed that one!

More later.

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (DaddyMatt)
 

Finally finished it and driving the car and loving it bump... Check edits for stripped bolt saga...

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (Rusty)
 

Rusty,

Congratulations on completing your project! I did my timing belt on Sunday too; finished up about 10 PM! I'll post my experiences and some pictures sometime this week. In short, all went (fairly) well, with no major complications...definitely a "do again next time instead of taking it to the dealer" job. It was an empowering experience, http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif a day I will remember for a long time!

Sorry to hear about the stripped bolt hole...but don't sweat it too much, when I pulled off my bumper cover, I discovered the lock carrier had only 7 bolts holding it on...from the factory!

After reading your latest edit, I'm wishing I had bought the ECS pulley...I'll put it on the list for next time!

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (DaddyMatt)
 

Yeah, the crank pulley is sweet... at 6000 ft, this car was a dog from idle until turbo spool. Now it's quite tolerable... I'll post a review as soon as I get some "dyno" numbers in a few days...

Glad your project went well! - Rusty

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/cran ... (Rusty)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>car was a dog from idle until turbo spool. Now it's quite tolerable...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the main benefit of a lightened "underdrive" pulley on 1.8Ts...improved acceleration from "clutch release" till ~3K rpm. Feels like an invisible 200lb passenger got out of your car. http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (Rusty)
 

Nice Job Rusty! Like everyone said, it makes me want to go change mine! I've got all the parts, I just needed this little boost of yours to motivate me. http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmile.gif

I had no clue the ECS pulley was so light! Now I'm somewhat regretting ECS didn't come out with it sooner.

Good write-up! http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emthup.gif

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (mistertam)
 

so is that a "for" or "against" the snub mount. i'm getting close to buying everything...but. how come ECS's is $50 while autotech and greedspeed are like $20? I know ECS sells the APR version, but I've been told they are basically all the same.

Thanks.

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (Medrosje)
 

Greedspeed's is cheaper because they have been making it for years and years - it's supposedly the same part going all the way back to early Scirocco/Rabbit models.

It's neither a "for" nor "against". I'm starting to like it more and more because of all the extra feedback it gives me. I miss the silky smoothness less and less, but I still miss it. It feels more raw and less refined. It's all in what you want.

Because of the clearance of the Greedspeed, there is absolutely zero noise or vibration at idle in Park or Neutral. There is objectionable vibration at idle (and only at idle) in gear, but I have not had a chance to adjust the mount yet. The APR, which supposedly fits more snug, may have more problems with idle vibration than the Greedspeed. May have - I don't know, I have no firsthand experience. A manual tranny should not experience these idle vibration problems.

<![CDATA[Greedspeed's is cheaper because they have been making it for years and years - it's supposedly the same part going all the way back to early Scirocco/Rabbit models.

It's neither a "for" nor "against". I'm starting to like it more and more because of all the extra feedback it gives me. I miss the silky smoothness less and less, but I still miss it. It feels more raw and less refined. It's all in what you want.

Because of the clearance of the Greedspeed, there is absolutely zero noise or vibration at idle in Park or Neutral. There is objectionable vibration at idle (and only at idle) in gear, but I have not had a chance to adjust the mount yet. The APR, which supposedly fits more snug, may have more problems with idle vibration than the Greedspeed. May have - I don't know, I have no firsthand experience. A manual tranny should not experience these idle vibration problems.

[Modified by Rusty, 9:50 AM 11/22/2002]

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank pulley/snub mount i ... (Rusty)
 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>it's supposedly the same part going all the way back to early Scirocco/Rabbit models.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's correct. The B5 1.8T front motor mount has a shape identical to the A1 (Rabbit/Scirocco/Jetta) front engine mount. I'm not sure if there's a difference in durometer (hardness) of the rubber or not...would appear not since the B5 front mount is rather soft.

I compared the stock rubber front mount to an A1 front mount from Techtonics (supplied with exhaust system) that I had lying around.

The only way to get rid of vibration at idle is to trim the (APR) mount so that is has ~0.5mm (slightly more than 50 rch http://www.clubb5.com/images_forum/wink.gif ) clearance when being installed. If the outside edges of the mount touch the cup-shaped carrier (which the mount fits inside) you'll have vibration issues.

Rusty, since you have a Tip tranny there's no way to get rid of the "in gear" vibration. The torque converter will always allow some torque through the tranny while car's standing still with the engine running (no way to avoid this that I know of).

http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/embeer.gif

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank ... (Electron Man)
 

Yeah, I figured I couldn't get rid of it, but I'm hoping to adjust it to minimize it. Maybe slightly less clearance will make a firmer contact which would be hopefully less vibration. We'll see...

It's strong encouragement to flip it into Neutral at stop lights, which I like to do anyway...

Re: Timing belt/tensioner/water pump/crank ... (Rusty)
 

Best thing to adjust the snub mount is to loosen three bolts from the plate just enough so you'll be able to tap it into position. Then start the car and let it idle for couple of minutes at neutral(if you have auto) for the snub mount to ajust itself in most neutral position. This is all you can do to adust the snub mount unless you're will to take it off and dremel off the edges. However, over time in about a month, the vibration will be less noticeable.