2000 Passat, No Power to Starter Relay
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  1. #1
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    2000 Passat, No Power to Starter Relay

    2000 Passat 1.8l

    Desperate - Need help please.... tired of driving my daughter to work...

    Trouble began with a no starter crank problem, fuel door, trunk, key remote, interior lights not working

    Checked all fuses with ohmeter and found no blown fuses at side panel box, engine computer box, and several others I found drivers side far under the dash.

    With Key On, Found no power at Fuse #28 (fuel door) #3 interior lights, #4 Lights (Bs-x-32 ?) # 32 (Engine) and 1.7v at #34 (engine)

    Tested Starter motor by jumping power to solenoid at starter, cranked normally. Found no power coming into starter solenoid when key turned to start position.

    Tested Starter Interlock (Relay #185) power out at position 30 with key in start position and verified power. Tested starter by jumping power from position 30 to 87 - engine starts and runs normally.

    Checked for power at relay power circuit pos 85 and 86 connectors... NO POWER.

    I have been searching the forums and finding many similar issues that indicate it could be the comfort control module? I checked the condition of the ground at the CCM and visually inspected with nothing unusally...

    I beleive my only option is to take it to someone who can connect a tester to the car? Anyone have recomendations.

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  3. #2
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    Your issues are all items that are related to the CCM. Double check fuse #14. If it's good, then my suggestion is to check the factory made splices in the wiring harness- specifically the segment between the CCM and up to the kick panel area. You'll need to peel off the bundling tape and separate out the wires to see all the splices. Look for any rust/ corrosion/ broken wires.

  4. #3
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    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by soundguybob View Post
    Your issues are all items that are related to the CCM. Double check fuse #14. If it's good, then my suggestion is to check the factory made splices in the wiring harness- specifically the segment between the CCM and up to the kick panel area. You'll need to peel off the bundling tape and separate out the wires to see all the splices. Look for any rust/ corrosion/ broken wires.
    Thanks, I will do that very carefully tomorrow, I did find water in the floorboard near the CCM box, it doesn't appear to have penetrated the outside plastic container and definately not the interior container, I looked at the ccm board and it doesn't have any visible damage.

    If I don't find any broken wires is the next step changing the CCM?

  5. #4
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    In my experience, the wiring is a more common failure point than the CCM itself- not to say that yours isn't bad, but in nearly every case of a bad CCM, there is evidence in the way of cold solder joints, rust, corrosion, or other damage visible on the circuit board or connectors. I can only recall 2 CCM's that were bad but had no visible signs of damage.

    Also, the fuses you mentioned won't necessarily have power even with the ignition switch on. Some of them are only energized when that circuit is in use.

    The CCM appears to not be triggering the interlock relay (as you already discovered). There are not many items in that circuit, so it's likely to be either the CCM, interlock switch (on clutch pedal for MT, in shifter for AT) or the wiring. Since you found moisture around the CCM, there's a good chance that the wiring is the culprit. The harness will wick the moisture up inside and kill those splices.

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    Still Checking...

    Thanks again, I have more confidence now that I am chasing the right thing, I started on the wire harness today and noticed the greenish corrosion on the floorboard where the splices were laying... so far they seem to be okay and flowing through the splice, still have plenty more to check...

    If I don't find an issue with the wires, will buying one of the CCM's with the same part no from ebay work? I heard that its possible that they need to be configured for the specific car?

    Thanks again, I'll keep you posted.

  7. #6
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    If you get the same part number it should just work. You'll need to reprogram the remote locking, but the only other things you would need to change are user preference, like 10mph auto lock, etc.

  8. #7
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    Some Progress- but not yet...

    I spent a few hours tearing into the harness going to the CCM. Found two suspect splices and fixed those, and one that fell off in my hand that I fixed it and wha laa I now have power to the infamous fuze 14 and interior lights, trunk release, fuel door release and even the darn dinger telling me I left the key in the ignition... I didn't miss that one. HOWEVER, I still don't have constant power to the 185 starter relay, I bypassed the 185 relay and can start and run the car...

    I guess I am going back in tomorrow with a fresh set of eyes to see if I can find any other harness issues, any other suggestions ?


    Thanks for your help, I really apreciate it...

  9. #8
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    Ok, just so it's stated, the relay will only have power when the ignition is in the start position. (pretty sure you know that but want to make sure) There are 2 starting interlock relays, so the other one might be bad. Can you check to see weather you're missing 12V or ground at the relay? If you're missing ground, then it's likely the transmission switch. If it's 12V, then it could be the other relay or the CCM.

  10. #9
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    TO be sure ...

    Quote Originally Posted by soundguybob View Post
    Ok, just so it's stated, the relay will only have power when the ignition is in the start position. (pretty sure you know that but want to make sure) There are 2 starting interlock relays, so the other one might be bad. Can you check to see weather you're missing 12V or ground at the relay?
    Good point, I assumed that the coil side would have power with the key in the ON position and that the circuit side would energize when you move to START? Is this wrong? Do both energize only in the START position? I'll check but am pretty sure it doesn't energize at all. Thanks again,

  11. #10
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    The 1st relay's coil is triggered from the ignition switch with the power for the switched portion coming from the CCM. I'm not sure what conditions need to be met for the CCM to send power to the switched portion. The 2nd relay uses the switched output from the first relay to trigger both the coil and feed the switched portion, so it will only have 12V when the ignition is in the start position. The ground on the 2nd relay (for the coil) is closed through the ignition switch. SO, the coils on both relays are only energized while the ignition is in the start position.

  12. #11
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    I think I get it...

    Quote Originally Posted by soundguybob View Post
    The 1st relay's coil is triggered from the ignition switch with the power for the switched portion coming from the CCM. I'm not sure what conditions need to be met for the CCM to send power to the switched portion. The 2nd relay uses the switched output from the first relay to trigger both the coil and feed the switched portion, so it will only have 12V when the ignition is in the start position. The ground on the 2nd relay (for the coil) is closed through the ignition switch. SO, the coils on both relays are only energized while the ignition is in the start position.
    Thanks for the explanation; Relay 53 appears to be working as you say it should (1st relay) power comes on the coil and power switch when the key is in start, and that relay is passing power out.
    The second relay (185) only gets power at the switched output side (#30) while the key is in the Start positiong, and since the coil is not energized - it doesn't pass it through to the starter solenoid. (Relay 185 doesn't appear to be working on the bench, but I think it may be because I droped the power lead and shorted it out on the relay, I have one on order) In any case by completing the circuit manually the car will start and run)

    Here's a new twist, I noticed that the power windows are now not working... I imagine its connected to the CCM or wiring problem. (Correct)

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    Thanks, some resolution

    Quote Originally Posted by delsandi View Post
    Thanks for the explanation; Relay 53 appears to be working as you say it should (1st relay) power comes on the coil and power switch when the key is in start, and that relay is passing power out.
    The second relay (185) only gets power at the switched output side (#30) while the key is in the Start positiong, and since the coil is not energized - it doesn't pass it through to the starter solenoid. (Relay 185 doesn't appear to be working on the bench, but I think it may be because I droped the power lead and shorted it out on the relay, I have one on order) In any case by completing the circuit manually the car will start and run)
    So just to update, I did get a replacement relay 185 and the engine starts so I must not have understood where the power was suppose to come in on the relay, apparently it only come in on post 30 and it trips the coil. I presume I fried my original relay when I was trying to test.

    So the issue was the broken wires in the harness under the floor board. Thanks for the help. Now I need to figure out why the power windows and sun roof isn't working. I have a feeling it could be another wire in the harness from the CCM... I am going to go on another search to see if its possible.

  14. #13
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    The power windows and sunroof are all together on either a fuse or thermal circuit breaker, and the power is split in the harness from one wire to everything. Your failure is most likely at the junction where that one wire splits out to all the doors and sunroof, although it could also be a blown fuse.

  15. #14
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    Finally found the little rascal - Resolved !

    The whole thing was a bad splice in the CCM harness. Everything is back up and running.

    Thank you to everyone who helped me through this mess. I hope I can do the same in return for someone else some day.

  16. #15
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    Same exact issue!

    Hi guys-

    It looks like you wish will be granted of helping someone! I'm just in awe reading this, because my 2000 Passat is having the exact same problem!

    I was driving it with no issues, but when I parked it, I realized the windows wouldn't go up. Then when I tried to crank it, not a sound. The interior lights, gas and trunk levers, power windows, sunroof, and FOB key remote all don't respond. My headlights and dash lights are working fine. I was able to start it by popping the clutch. My battery is strong and well connected. There is one possible difference though: there is a very faint click that you hear that sounds like it's coming from the starter when cranking. However, because the electrical issues happened exactly the same as in your situation simultaneously, it makes me think it's not the starter. I am not mechanically inclined, but I absolutely don't have the money to take it to a mechanic right now. Is there any way you can take some pictures, or give me simple instructions on how to do what you did? Please let me know as soon as you can, thanks!

    Jesse

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    Contact

    By the way, my phone number is 301-825-2781 if that's more convenient.

    Jesse

  18. #17
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    Jesse- Start by checking fuse #14.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nataku5 View Post
    Hi guys-

    It looks like you wish will be granted of helping someone! I'm just in awe reading this, because my 2000 Passat is having the exact same problem!

    I was driving it with no issues, but when I parked it, I realized the windows wouldn't go up. Then when I tried to crank it, not a sound. The interior lights, gas and trunk levers, power windows, sunroof, and FOB key remote all don't respond. My headlights and dash lights are working fine. I was able to start it by popping the clutch. My battery is strong and well connected. There is one possible difference though: there is a very faint click that you hear that sounds like it's coming from the starter when cranking. However, because the electrical issues happened exactly the same as in your situation simultaneously, it makes me think it's not the starter. I am not mechanically inclined, but I absolutely don't have the money to take it to a mechanic right now. Is there any way you can take some pictures, or give me simple instructions on how to do what you did? Please let me know as soon as you can, thanks!

    Jesse
    Having a similar issue but everything works except that the starter won't crank. Is the starter relay behind the kick panel? Need to check if the solenoid is getting power but the only click I hear is at the relay location under the dash.

  20. #19
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    Checked the CCM, all spliced seem clean and the only corrosion was on the ground which I cleaned. Pulled the starter relay and confirmed it clicked when I turn the key to start. Need to check the solenoid

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyTargetRN View Post
    Checked the CCM, all spliced seem clean and the only corrosion was on the ground which I cleaned. Pulled the starter relay and confirmed it clicked when I turn the key to start. Need to check the solenoid
    Trying to jump the solenoid with a hand switch to see if the starter/solenoid is shot. Solenoid is on top of the starter, correct? How do I get to it to connect the cable to the switch? I can't even see it from below and a heat shield obstructs from above.
    A little advice would be great right now

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