B5 1.8t with a broken timing belt... Well... this esclated quickly

[neonhomer]

Okay, so I bought a 99 Passat w/ the 1.8T and the Tiptronic trans... for $500. Not a bad deal, except I had to get a key for it. The previous owner said he had the trans rebuilt recently, and then the timing belt broke. I priced the car based on the fact that I was going to have to replace the motor.

Well, the timing belt was still tight, so I was hoping for the best.... So we strip the front of the car, and get the front of the motor apart. And there were a handful of timing belt teeth in the bottom of the cover. When we rotated the motor to take the front pulley off, it stopped on it's own.

So we figure the head has to come off.. So we start by pulling the coils.. and all four bores are full of oil...


I guess the questions are : A> Why are the plug bores full of oil? I think it's a bad valve cover gasket. My friend who is helping me work on the car thinks the head is cracked.

And B> Is there any other way to see if there is valve damage besides pulling the head? I can't think of anything short of a bore cam, but that would only show me the piston, not the valves.


I really hate to see this car go to the junkyard, because the body is in really good condition (except for a dent in the driver's front fender), and the interior is in okay condition.

[lucy]

Oil in the spark plug holes is common due to valve cover gasket leaks--i've never seen it "full" of oil, but i think it's safe to say that i wouldn't jump to the assumption that the head is cracked.

Based on a stripped timing chain, and a motor that won't turn (if I understood you right), I wouldn't even consider spending time or money until you see what the valves and pistons look like. So, to me it's a no-brainer that the head needs to come off.

Obviously this is a project car, so hey, tear into it and enjoy learning something new!!!

[neonhomer]

It could have been because of the coil boots in the bores displacing the oil... But it covered the plugs.

It stripped out the timing belt. I should have taken a few pictures for the wall of shame.

I think we are just going to pull the head and be done with it. That way we can also check the cylinder bore for excessive wear, piston damage, and oil/water passage blockage.

One thing we are also thinking about doing is to rebuild the turbo while we have it out. I've also thought about swapping it out for a K04 in prep for future upgrades... depends on how much money I can save up...

[GSO_Passater]

The spark plug holes being full of oil is a sign the PCV system is plugged. This has caused the Valve Cover Gasket to begin leaking. To see that you have bent valves, remove the valve cover. If light is seen between the cam lobe and the lifter, you have bent valves. I bought a car the same way, with a broken timing belt and took it all the way to 293k miles before an accident claimed the car. Good luck.

[Steve in Chicago]

If it slipped the timing belt, you've got some damaged valves and the head needs to come off... period. It's an interference engine.

Some people rebuild the existing head and others replace with a used one. As long as you're pulling the head, go through every part of the PCV system while you have good access. Replace any hoses that feel like they've been cooked to death. Some will crumble to pieces during disassembley. New timing belt kit (that's a given). Inspect the piston tops for valve impressions left from the valve collisions. Lightly sand down any sharp corners of the valve impressions in the pistons. You're not sanding the piston flat again, you're just rounding off any sharp edges. Sharp edges in the combustion chamber run hot and become a source of preignition.

[neonhomer]

Since I work during the week, my friend that is helping me (and is also a mechanic by trade) is going to be pulling the head. I was kind of hoping there wouldn't be any damage, but I priced the car based on needing this kind of work. This is my plan:

Parts:
ECS Timing Belt Kit (Ulitmate)
ECS Emissions Service Kit (PCM)
Replacements for Damaged Valves
Head Bolts
Head Gasket set
Valve Cover gasket
Turbo gaskets (Install kit?)
Turbo rebuild kit (If not putting a K04 in)
Plugs

Work:
Head removal and repair (to include crack checking, replacement of damaged valves, and decking)
Inspection of Cams, chain, and tensioner
Cylinder bore inspection, and "easing" any dents in piston top
PCV system inspection/replacement
Turbo inspection and repair/replacement
Engine reassembly


One thing I am wondering is if I should replace the cam chain and tensioner or just leave it be. Anything else I should do while I have it apart? I've given thought to replacing the oil pump as well, but I am not sure if this can be done with the motor in the car or not.

[B5.5Wagon]

How many miles are on it? If the heads are off and they have to replace valves I'd replace anything on the head that can be replaced while it's apart, including the tensioners, cam seals, and so on. Cam seals are pretty notorious for leaking along with the head gasket.

[neonhomer]

That's one thing I was wondering... Should I replace the cam chain and the tensioner? I already was planning on replacing any seals I can get to.

I'm still considering the oil pump... and I read a writeup on it somewhere. I'm thinking it would be worthwhile to do, especially if the head is off the motor. Might make it easier to do (more room..)

[GSO_Passater]

Yes, I would change the oil pump and suction screen, but may not change the CCT, depending on the condition. If the timing belt was broken, you probably can count on the oil having been changed with non-synthetic oil.

[neonhomer]

That's kind of what I am thinking. I use Mobil1 in everything I drive anyway, so using it from here out is a non-issue. I just want to be able to put this car together and be able to drive it for a while...

[neonhomer]

Lemme throw this out there... I found two motors in the junkyard... One is an ATW, the other is an AWM. Could I swap one of these motors into this car, or am I just better off fixing the head (if there is damage. We are still waiting to disassemble the motor.)

[zmaninco]

It will depend on what y have right now. I believe the 99 came with either an AEB or an ATW. So the ATW is an option. I am not sure if the AWM would simply plug and play.

pull your head. If your only issue is the head, just rebuild it. Quick and painless.

[GSO_Passater]

The AWM is not a plug and play option. It would require a new ECU as well.

[Steve in Chicago]

There are two ways to go about it. One is by upgrading the rest of the engine management (harness, ECM, sensors...etc) to match the newer motor. The other is by down grading the newer motor to work with the existing engine management. For this you'd be reusing all the sensors and plumbing from your original engine and putting them on the newer engine. (valve cover, cable throttle body & intake manifold, PCV system, static cam chain tensioner, ICM ignition system...etc) Also, there is a difference in the end of the crank shaft between the automatic cars and the manual cars. The manual cars have a pilot bearing there. Several people have done auto/manual swaps so what's needed to make the one style work with the other has been documented in various threads.

It'd probably be simpler to rebuild or replace your head if that's the only thing that was damaged.

[scotts13]

Steve has the right information, as usual. To expand a bit, your '99 most likely has an AEB. Neither the ATW (2000 only) or the AWM will be plug and play. You'll want an AEB for easiest fitting. Personally, I'd still rather fix or replace the head than swap in an unknown AEB engine.

[PZ]

The ATW would be easier as it uses the same block. The SAIP port would have to be blocked off, the CCT would have to be swapped to the AEB one and the throttle body would also need to be kept from the AEB.

I'm with Scotts13, I would just repair/replace the head.

[neonhomer]

Probably just going to just fix the current motor. Was just tossing the option out there.

[CotySinz]

Since I work during the week, my friend that is helping me (and is also a mechanic by trade) is going to be pulling the head. I was kind of hoping there wouldn't be any damage, but I priced the car based on needing this kind of work. This is my plan:

Parts:
ECS Timing Belt Kit (Ulitmate)
ECS Emissions Service Kit (PCM)
Replacements for Damaged Valves
Head Bolts
Head Gasket set
Valve Cover gasket
Turbo gaskets (Install kit?)
Turbo rebuild kit (If not putting a K04 in)
Plugs

Work:
Head removal and repair (to include crack checking, replacement of damaged valves, and decking)
Inspection of Cams, chain, and tensioner
Cylinder bore inspection, and "easing" any dents in piston top
PCV system inspection/replacement
Turbo inspection and repair/replacement
Engine reassembly


One thing I am wondering is if I should replace the cam chain and tensioner or just leave it be. Anything else I should do while I have it apart? I've given thought to replacing the oil pump as well, but I am not sure if this can be done with the motor in the car or not.

I had to do all this and I paid $3k for mine. My head gasket was blown and head was warped though - so I didn't know initially. I replaced head with a used one. In total with parts and everything I think I spent around $2500-$3000 getting mine running (including a tranny issue, kerosene for heaters, food for me and helpers, all fluids, some crap off the snap on truck and so on).