2002 1.8 AWM with P0011 code - Please help !!

[ratdog]

Hi folks,

Disclaimer - I had posted this first in B5 General, but later realized the hard core techs would be in this forum. I got no replies, and right now my car is not drivable, so I am a bit desperate. I apologize to those who have seen this topic before.

I have a 2002 1.8 wagon that threw a check engine light that won't clear, and the code is P0011. The engine ran smoothly even with this CEL on. About a month ago I had the CEL blink for a minute with the engine running rough like it was missing, but that cleared up. Then about a week ago, CEL came back with rough idle, and initial blinking became steady. I had just pulled into work. When I started it after work, no CEL or rough running. Couple days later the CEL came back and stayed.

Definition of P0011 from Autozone are camshaft position timing over-advanced or system performance - bank 1. Explanation given is Open or short circuit condition, with probable cause of Poor electrical connection, Failed camshaft actuator, or Blocked oil passage.

I searched Passat World for posts and found some camshaft-related issues, but I don't have any camshaft area noises like this example I found on YouTube
( )


The car has 137,000 miles on it and had the sludge issue fixed at 60,000 - nothing but synthetic since. The timing belt, belt damper, water pump and tensioner were replaced at 102000 miles. We have called some dealers and local independent shops about what might this problem be exactly. We got such a variety of responses I'm puzzled as to what to do. I might be able to do some repairs myself, but if not I've got to trust someone else to know exactly how to fix this without expensive guessing.

1 - One dealer said the oil pump could be going, or oil pressure switch could be bad. Was not concerned with the actuator switch

2 - Dealer 2 says probably not oil sludge, but might be a camshaft actuator. The actuator moves based on oil pressure.

3 - Local repair shop said Honda and Acura have a similar coding set-up. When this code comes up on the Honda or Acura it is usually oil related. May not necessarily be the actuator could be sludge in one of the ports.

4 - Dealer 3 told us they normally do a guided fault finding. Could be a bad sensor. Does not believe it is a sludge issue. This is dealership that sold the car, but I now live out-of-state.

5 - Local specialty foreign car repair shop said timing is retarded, possible Hydro tensioner faulty. Might need to be replaced. Screen and tensioner might be clogged, and sludge should not have re-occurred if we used synthetic oil. Quoted a price of $1300-$1500, which includes the new tensioner that supposedly costs $700. Does not think it is an electrical fault.


Car just passed inspection a week ago after dropping about $500 to patch in a new flex pipe, replace rear brakes and rotors, and new tie rod. The oil was changed by the dealer 775 miles ago. The ABS light is on, but brakes work (common issue according to posts). The body is solid, no dents...lots of stuff put in this past year including new tires, battery and front brakes.

I don't know if this car is worth fixing. I depends on the actual problem, which no one seems to be able to determine. I might need to have a shop diagnose it, but want to go to the place that seems to have the best understanding. Can't afford to guess. Right now it's not even worth the $1200 a dealer had offered me (due to ABS light). The car is otherwise in really good shape...hard to believe I'd have to sell this for scrap.


Please...anyone with experience on this and what the correct problem would be, please help!!


Thanks so much ...

Richard

[Jmacc]

Well you can get the abs module resoldered for 100$ or so dollars. Not sure what place does it but u do remember looking into it. For your other problem, have your coil packs been replaced at all?

[ratdog]

Thanks for replying Jmacc.

Yes, I have seen posts about getting the ABS module rebuilt, and would think about doing it but right now my main concern is with the P0011 code. I initially thought it was going to be a coil pack issue, but that is because Autozone (wife took car there) printed out instructions for P0010 code, but had given her the code reader printout which was P0011. I borrowed a code reader from a friend and it read P0011 also.

If your experience makes you think coil packs apply to P0011 also, please explain why.

Thanks,

Richard

[Jmacc]

Its not the code just the symptoms and if they haven't been replaced yet they are so prone to failing

[ratdog]

Thanks again...I'll look into that also. Anything that will get this CEL off !! And when this first set off the CEL and ran rough, it did seem like a miss and I thought it might be coils or plugs. Then the wife told me what Autozone printed out for her about camshaft position sensor, I thought it would be an easy fix until I read more about the P0011 and searched for posts.

It's just so strange seeing other posts with P0011, and most leading to camshaft actuator but with those guys reporting noise...I guess like in the video, which I don't have (or is not at that stage yet).

I'm planning to do an oil pressure check too, need to buy a gauge, because I've seen complaints of low pressure casuing actuator to fail plus it should let me know if sludge or something is restricting the oil flow.
Again, thanks for the imput!!

[i5mast]

I would start with the list here:
16395/P0011/000017 - Ross-Tech Wiki

The first on the list is Check Camshaft Adjustment Valve 1 (N205).

Valve -1- For Camshaft Adjustment -N205-, Checking
http://www.justanswer.com/uploads/as...245_ANSWER.pdf

[FrescoGreen01.5]

I had the cam chain tensioner, aka Camshaft Adjustment Valve (N205), fail on my 1.8T--the engine sounded like it was in the process of killing itself! That part, from VW, does cost $700; third party around $400. There doesn't seem to be that much to it, don't know why it's so pricey...

But I never had a CEL, just the frightening sound (RPM & torque dependent), so I'm not lead to suspect your cam chain tensioner. You could check its solenoid valve, 10-18 ohms, if you're so inclined.

But since your symptoms have been intermittent, I have to suspect the camshaft position sensor. It's just a hall effect sensor the sees a metal flag (or window, I'm not sure) that rotates on the end of the intake camshaft. I've seen hall effect sensors fail by going slowly flaky, rather than just dying. Bentley doesn't have much to say, but I suspect that, lacking a valid signal from the sensor, the ECM would default to some safe settings, which probably equals rotten performance like you're seeing.

If you're DIYing it, the camshaft sensor is fairly easy to change, so I'd start there. Granted, it's $80 to $150, not pocket change.

If you're taking it somewhere, go to a good dealer or indy that has a VAG-COM (not a generic scanner!). With it, you can monitor the sensor output in real time, as the engine runs (not so with the AutoZone readers). The VAG-COM can also run a test on the cam chain tensioner, I believe.

A truly competent VW/Audi mechanic, who has seen dozens of 1.8Ts and knows how to fully use a VAG-COM, should be able to diagnose your issue in an hour or two. (The shop I went to was sort of guessing and replaced some other stuff first, to no effect except thinning my wallet. So if I seem sore...)

And if you are so inclined, you can buy your own VAG-COM for about $250 (laptop PC not included), the cost of a few hours labor.

My two cents worth, YMMV.

[ratdog]

Thanks again everyone...Been a few days since I've checked in. Had to clean up the garage to make room for the Passat for anticipated work. Car sounded absolutely fine when driving it into the garage....no noises at all, car idled smoothly for the short time I ran it.

I went to the car to make another attempt to clear the code. Plugged in the reader, and this time got 2 additional codes P0300 and P0304. From what I've seen, these indicate possible coil pack or plug issues. That makes some sense, since I first experienced rough idle for a minute a month ago (which vanished), then again a few days before my car threw the persistent CEL. But there has been no rough running since. I left the codes uncleared for now.

So I'm wondering, could the few minutes of misfiring or rough idle caused the timing to be thrown off..that is, mess up my chain positioning? Or could it have just set the P0011 as part of the rough running, and then if I replace coil packs / plugs the base problem would be fixed and the P0011 would not re-appear.

Sorry to make this more complicated...but it has just got more interesting with the additional clues.

Thanks once again,
Richard

[Salukis]

There is a recall for the coil packs, my '02 passat was just in to the dealer for oil pump replacement at 178k miles and they replaced my coil packs on the recall. I also have the p001 code, I will be replacing the tensioner soon.

[kimokk]

Any updates on this issue?