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Should i bother? 2003 1.8T warenteed engine 40k worth fixing?

15K views 136 replies 20 participants last post by  Spottedbat 
#1 ·
I am starting a new thread as i had it ealier under passat help cct.
I have a 2001 1.8T i got for really cheap but needed new engine cause last one was toast- due to oil sludge. The new engine is a 2003 with 40k so i was hoping it would last me for a long time. i bought that in august and it has been constantly in the shop with my mechanic. I wish i knew about the oil sludge before as much as i have read now b/c i would have had my mechanic drop the pan before he installed it and check the pickup vent. this is the story: my husband drove it hard up the road after he charged the a/c. Then he heard a loud TINK type noise then the OIL PRES STOP came on for the 1st time that we had seen (had it for a few days at that point). Then he limped it home (1/2 mile). then i started up the car and it made a horrible noise, made me think of timing belt and quickly shut off. Had it towed to mechanic and he couldnt recreate the problem for days. We got it back and when i took it 20 miles and on hilly stretches of 55 mph, then the warnings started up again and more often. i would pull over turn off, restart go a mile, etc. Got to a point where engine seemed overly hot and could then smell some oil that had dripped down the side of the engine, my husband recalls near the turbo. My mechanic drove to car for a weekend and was able to recreate the situation. He figures we need need pickup tube. My husband is concerned the whole engine is totaled and should swap it out with the company we got it from. Before we have him drop the pan i had my mechanic looked into the drained oil pan with a boroscope, but he saw nothing. He poured the drained oil into another bucket and reported tiny black plastic bits.
He will open valve cover and look at the status in there. i wonder if CCT chewed through valve cover, or CCA pads worn.

1. I asked him to look under valve cover and check for sludge signs and pop out one of the cams- valid request?
2. If the cams look good should i pursue fixing this or just get a new used engine to swap out cause between replacing CCT VCG PCV and oil pump pickup tube this is going to cost well over 1000! If people think its such a huge deal then i can call the company and it should be legitimate to swap out engine, course i have to have wasted money on multiple installs

I told him if we are going to drop the pan, i will come up with a whole parts list of stuff for him to change out while he is doing the oil pickup tube because i am not doing this again.
 
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#2 ·
My mechanic thinks things look good under valve cover. showed me and i took some picts. I am new here and this is my 1st time posting pict so excuse me if picts dont show up. is it okay to use google?

He found some hard plastic bits in the oil he drained.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzh...ew?usp=sharing

The dirty valve cover:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzh...ew?usp=sharing

clean within the valve cover
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzh...ew?usp=sharing

close up of CCT i believe pads look fine
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzh...ew?usp=sharing

I gave him the okay to drop the oil pan and replace pump, tube. Should i have him do anything else taking advantage of this job? He says not necessary. He says if this doesnt fix the Low Press Stop issue, the engine is not getting pressure and there is a problem somewhere inside the engine and then i will be talking to the company we got it from. I guess i agree, why would i fix other things if this engine may get swapped out! They said i needed an exact diagnosis of what is going on in order for them to approve part replacement and engine swap out. Well how are we supposed to know exactly the problem? If it is not the oil pump the plastic bits came from somewhere. Any opinions?
 
#3 ·
Mechanic had been checking pressure, its been fine. No real damage was being done when light would go on, decelerate pull over, turn off. turn back on and no warning till got back up to speed. my mechanic put in it neutral when the light came on and by then was coasting back to his house and the light went out.
Color and shape of bits in oil pan: they are black and small like a half pinky finger nail clipping. definately plastic not rubber. i have heard CCA or oil dipstick tube from someone as a possibility. How can i confirm that, when the oil pan is dropped? or is this something i can check prior to that, he may not get to my car for a week or 2 at this point.
If i am to take advantage of the warranty on this engine i bought on ebay from nationwide auto recycling, i need to have exact diagnosis they said from my mechanic. he needs to see the problem. I know we will find a clogged pickup tube, but hopefully there will be something obvious. Can someone tell me more about checking an oil pump, opening it up?
 
#6 ·
my mechanic put in it neutral when the light came on and by then was coasting back to his house and the light went out.
IIRC, the light won't come on until the engine is over a certain RPM. Its entirely possible that be NOT stopping, he caused a LOT more harm than good. While the pan is off, make sure he pulls crank and main journal caps, and inspects the bearings and surfaces under there. My top end was fine on my original motor, but the scoring on my crank has that motor sitting on the floor of my shop, and another one in the car now.
 
#4 ·
Should i go ahead and plan on getting a new PVC kit to be safe? its something i would want to have peace of mind if i end up keeping or swapping out this engine.
What can one do to prove an engine is worn or damaged, ideas? i need proof to get it swapped.
 
#5 ·
Can't see the pics in the second post, try using photobucket or imgur to host them. What is the oil pressure when the engine is warmed up at idle speed and 2000 rpm? It is possible that the oil pressure sender has gone bad.

Take a look at this video:
he explains a lot of things that can cause low/no oil pressure and how to fix them. Somewhere he shows where you can look near the cam chain tensioner to see if the lower plastic shoe is still there.
 
#7 ·
once the pan is off i will have him do that, thank you i will make a note of it. if one started up my engine they wouldnt know anything was wrong with it, it sounds fine, its just when you go like 20 miles the light come on. this still occured after he put in a new sender unit. i really dont think he did any harm with the engine, he has been working on vws for like 40 years and is an old school mechanic. But due to that fact i get online and join the forum to get UTD info, cause i know there are many tricks to the trade.
fine , I will get a photobucket account.
 
#8 ·
It's hard to believe that this engine has only 40K on it. This is a red flag, and I would expect your mechanic would point this out.

Get the exact oil pressure test numbers and post them here.

It's not clear from what you say if the mechanic knows the oil pressure warning system on this car. Maybe he does. But I would be careful. Replacing the oil pressure sensor is a bit of a giveaway that either they are not VW specialists, or they are throwing parts at the problem. The sensors almost NEVER fail on these engines. Many people ended up paying for all this supposedly increasingly more expensive repairs, only to have to get a new engine in the end.

Ask the company that sold you the engine what they would consider as acceptable proof that the engine is damaged, and if they are reimburse you for the cost of those diagnostics if it's shown to be beyond repair.
 
#9 ·
good idea to ask the company what would be acceptable proof. I have read in many places on here that one should change the sender unit, how does this look bad on his end? its one thing someone can do before dropping the oil pan and we had to see if it would stop the warning from coming on to rule out it was not an electrical issue i think is what he told me.
He was a top BMW mechanic is germany before he moved to US in the 70s. He doesnt want to keep sucking money from me, he is 2 months booked up with work and is making time for this disaster. I trust him. I have no where else to go anyways, i am in western maine, its pretty remote area.
 
#10 ·
I have read in many places on here that one should change the sender unit, how does this look bad on his end? its one thing someone can do before dropping the oil pan and we had to see if it would stop the warning from coming on to rule out it was not an electrical issue i think is what he told me.
Depends if he actually checked the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge first.
 
#11 · (Edited)
yes he checked the pressure with a gauge, what other gauge would he have checked it with? he drove it down the road for a few miles, checked the pressure in the garage. i havent installed a gauge on my dash but just ordered one. though wont be able to use for a while, theres no oil in the pan as i am waiting for him to drop it. However, i can still go over and look under valve cover so i am curious about what tell tales signs and red flags people are saying regarding the inside of my engine. Here are picts from photobucket, i now have an account and learned how to use it today.

cam chain:


Top engine


plastic bits in the oil


dirty valve cover:
 
#13 ·
What i have noticed after watching the you tube video above recommended, and some others, that where there is an arrow mark, maybe my cams are not lining up accurately at all! Now would one need to rotate the cams till the key lines up with the arrow before one can confirm 16 links? zoom into my photos and there is no cam shaft key even near the arrow. i am counting 17 links. is there no way to tell unless i head over and request my mechanic do that, is that unreasonable? after watching the how to videos i feel like its worth taking off the cam chain tensioner and checking out if the lower pad is worn? I definately want him to losen cam caps, unscrew a cap maybe number 4? and check out if its mucked up with sludge. probably the timing is all messed up now too.
 
#14 ·
OK, what i need from a few people is to give me a few things to go to my mechanic to request for him to do, where i dont have him drop the oil pan. I need some concrete evidence to have him see something major is wrong so that i can call up the company and email them pictures of this bull%#$@. i paid 2500 for this. They need to just give me another engine. If everyone thinks this engine looks bad its going back! I will call and cancel that oil pan drop request tomorrow and get over there with some things to discuss with my mechanic. First of all it doesnt seem like a big deal to take off the cam chain tensioner and check for wear on the bottom pad. It shouldnt be an unreasonable thing to ask, right? the following video makes me convinced.
Thoughts? any please, more comments the better.
 
#16 ·
There's no way that's an only 40,000 miles engine...even with only 4 oil changes (as manufacturers nowadays vouch for 1/yr 10k miles changes), it should not look like that.
Mine didn't look at all that dirty with 127k on the clock. The heads actually were spotless - nu buildup gunk in there. I can show you pictures.
My spark plug wells full of oil - bad gasket leaks, and despite that the valve covers were significantly much, MUCH cleaner than yours.
If they sold it to you out of timing, that's even worse than lying about true mileage.
Concerning the plastic bits in the oil, if I were in the same situation then I would rather have the mechanic pull the tensioner out instead of the oil pan (although having a look at the pump and the screen could also be indicative of poor/lack of maintenance on that engine).
Is that "company" you bought the engine from a junkyard business that sells parts as they pull cars apart, or is a legitimate shop that outsourced the engine on their own and installed it ? Or you just bought the engine and your mechanic installed it?
Although it seems to be that way, I hope you weren't taken for a ride on that engine sale. I sincerely wish you good luck.
 
#17 ·
Thankyou, i will be going over, requesting we look at that tensioner instead, and pop cam #4. The place i got from insists they will swap out engine if my mechanic can vouch for issues. thats how it was going into the sale- i confirmed on the phone that i could have my mechanic install it. I will be getting on the phone with them after some picture evidence. I wont be taken for any rides...
 
#18 ·
You can have good oil pressure at startup and for a while of driving, but once you've had the engine under good load for a while (driving up those hills) and the oil gets up to FULL OPERATING TEMP then pressure will drop. The oil won't get up to full temp (and thinnest viscosity) until a while AFTER the coolant has come up to full temp. If he only drove the car for 10 minutes before checking hot oil pressure, he didn't drive it long enough.

The oil capacity in these engines is smaller then it really needs to be. The turbo adds a good deal of heat to the oil. If you're keeping the engine under good load for a while, that oil will get good and hot. The hotter oil gets, the thinner it gets. The thinner it gets, the lower the oil pressure will drop.

I think you're on the right track with having your mechanic document any oil starvation damage he finds and using that as a warranty claim to request another engine. Lets hope the next engine isn't in worse shape then this one.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Well, I trust mechanics in general.

With that out of the way, what's really unclear here is who is driving the technical decisions on this motor. There is a lot here that does not add up.

Why does the OP have to tell the mechanic what to look for, what to do, what cam caps to inspect, etc? A mechanic is expected to drive those decisions. They are not just turning bolts for the customer.

Who installed the motor? A used engine usually gets to spend some time on the stand having its internals examined, measured, and once the decision is made that the motor is worth keeping, have various parts parts serviced before it gets married to the chassis. Check the timing, service the PCV, valve cover, CCT, change the pump, and pickup, whatever is not within specs.

Which mechanic sees a this much varnish under the valve cover and think this is a 40K motor?

Having warnings about oil pressure AFTER the switch is replaced are clear indications of a diagnostic fail. You cannot subsequently say the oil pressure is good/acceptable/within-spec, and go along with a plan to drop the pan.

Does a mechanic need to be told how to do an oil pressure test properly?

It just doesn't add up. Whoever sold that motor surely pulled a fast one, but that could have all been prevented if the mechanic on point did all the right things to realize what this was.

Anyway, I feel for the OP, this is a lot to deal with, and sure, spend zero money on this motor as we said in your other thread, but once you get a new motor, and hopefully better quality, you need to make sure whoever installs it is not just throwing it in there and figuring it out afterwards. Even if you are willing to fix any motor you get, it is a whole lot easier to proactively look for the known trouble spots with the engine off the car, than on it.

Good luck.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Agreed, lesson learned. with the past few months reading all the stuff and learning about it. Cars aren't my thing, but are beginning to be, at age 34, and owning and operating a doggy daycare. My husband has 22 years of mechanic experience but old subarus/toyotas, and then he got a new TDI in '02. He didnt want to help me with this and said it would be a piece of junk, but i believed in the car. i said i would find a mechanic and he wouldnt need to waste his time on it, and finally he has stepped in and talked with mechanic with me at times. we went over there today took picts and plan on contacting company tomorrow with my organized arguments. I strained the oil and found besides all the coked bits, metal splinters, they stuck to a magnet. many small varnish pieces and some grey flexible rubber bits(maybe from silicone sealant?).
 
#25 ·
one more of different angle of the metal shard, there were other tiny splinter sized ones. isnt this evidence of wearing coming from somewhere? cam number 4 on intake and exhaust didnt look or feel scored. there was coke evidence but not totally clogging the front intake one. We didnt check all of them. i think there is enough evidence here for a complaint, dont you think? ANYONE??
 
#26 ·
I have a question . The yellow coloration of the oil submersed parts under the valve cover should be aluminum grey ? Is that burnt Dino oil on them that turned it yellow ? That thing has been through some high temps ..or is it a process that vw uses on its internal parts ( anti corrosion ) ?
 
#27 ·
I hope someone will answer that. i am calling it varnish. i assume its oil that has heated. Everyone seems to think this engine has high miles and that the place i got it at lied. it says on their website any worker who misrepresents the mileage will be terminated. I REALLY hope they will give me my money back... I am trying to locate photos on net of what it should look like inside the engine compared to mine with say 40k, can anyone find one? I have seen way worse sludge. but i think this is definately oil starved and it wasnt from me, i only put a few hundred on it total since installed.
Back in 2007 someone wrote on the thread "'03 1.8t question ":
0-40k miles the dealership put "dino" oil in my car each and everytime. at 41k miles, my oil light issues began, but the dealership never pulled the valve cover to check it so it went misdiagnosed for another 40k miles. the engine never made any noise until this week when the garage test drove it before giving it back to me after they had put in 10oz of auto-rx for me (after they had hot bathed the valve cover & replaced all lubrication system hoses).
so I guess there is a good chance the same thing happened with my car?
 
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