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No Luck Search - Lock Carrier Swing Wide

12K views 71 replies 13 participants last post by  chefro 
#1 ·
2003 GLX 4Motion wagon, ATQ 2.8L V6
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I started taking stuff off to get ready for TB replacement. The bumper removal was pretty easy and am at the final step before swinging wide the lock carrier. However... here is where I need a little help from the V6 guys who did this before.
I searched to no avail, as it doesn't seem to be mentioned by the guys who posted pictures or wrote DIYs -maybe their cars didn't have same configuration.
There are two lines with middle hose sections that connect again to lines/pipes and are fastened to the "back" side of the oil pan. Both enter the radiator on the passenger side, one at the very top and the other one down low.
Do they carry transmission fluid??? I started undoing the connecting nuts on one and some "oil" came out, but is pretty dark which puzzles me. The only other option would be power steering fluid, but the lines for that are in the front of the radiator, clipped together with the outside temp sensor.
Do these lines carry indeed transmission fluid? Is this how the lock carrier should be allowed to swing wide open, by disconnection these lines?
What's the "risk" involved - just being "forced" to top off or change the transmission fluid if indeed that's what these lines carry?
I insert a picture for your edification.
Thank you very so much in advance.
(soundguybob has somewhere a picture of the carrier swung wide , but there's no mentioning of disconnecting those two lines)
John
 

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#2 ·
Yes. those are transmission fluid cooling lines.
The B5 carrier "swings wide" Not the B5.5 which you have. You will need to remove the carrier and set it aside. Or, just work with it it pulled out in which case you can leave the transmission and radiator hoses connected.
 
#3 ·
Sounds like the trans fluid lines that go to the radiator for the trans cooler. Once disconnected, the cooler will probably dribble out till empty. The lines might dribble a bit too. You shouldn't lose a large amount of fluid.

Trans fluid can get dark after a lot of miles, especially if the trans is worked hard. Friction materials wear away and become small particles suspended in the fluid. High heat can cook it to a darker color.
 
#4 ·
GLX and Steve, thanks from the bottom of my heart for your input and confirmation.
I guess it was logical those are tranny fluid lines, but the color and smell of the fluid threw me off. In the end I decided to undo them regardless.
I will have to drop the transmission pan (which was in the plan to be done, anyway), and perhaps I can pour some fluid in the cooler lines to "fill" them up before I reconnect them. Actually I'm glad I did it since that stuff looks nasty. The car has 127,750 on the clock, purchased it at 127,500 - the difference being the drive back home from Chicago.
I didn't see anything like that in the A6 (5 years back) with significantly higher mileage (did it once at 152,000 when I purchased it and then again at 162,000)
I'll update this thread as I go with the labor.
By the way, the carrier rests pretty cozy on a plank of wood with Styrofoam on top of it, both on top of two sturdy buckets. The AC lines remained connected as the hoses have plenty slack to allow the open swing. I guess it can be done on B5.5 as well.
I greatly appreciate your help, gents.
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#6 ·
Looks like you are ready for project Timing Belt! :thumbup:

And a little suspension work after that is done.

You should take the power steering cooler and tie it up with a piece of wire to support it and keep it out of the way. Just the weight of the cooler hanging by the power steering lines will cause them to weep fluid. Hmmm, might as well replace those clamps before you close everything up.
 
#9 ·
X2!!!!! It looks like the upright had snapped and was welded back together. That's a cast part. I wouldn't trust it. Though I suppose it is a better repair then a wood two-by-four, bailing wire and duct tape.

Call FCP Euro and see what sort of deal they can put together for you for suspension/steering parts. The upright can be found at a wrecking yard or someone parting out a car.


How the duck did they snap that upright!? :crazy:
 
#10 ·
I know...
The back of it though has no weld and it looks "straight". I don't know if it was in a wreck, or they hit some pothole, etc. I got one wheel that was welded as well - right now is in the back, but it could have been upfront before on the driver side where that steering knuckle was repaired. Are simple suppositions.
Well, short background story...
I saw the car listed on Ebay, as I was looking for a replacement station wagon for the Elantra (we like wagons :) ). At the same time I strongly leaned toward an A4 1.8T that was looking smashing in the extended number of photos posted in a different listing as "mechanic's special", with new tires, TB job done, new spark plugs, coils, etc. That was a 2005. In retrospect, I think that Photoshop does wonders...
Since I went to "inspect" it in person and buy it (the place was "Highland Park Truck Center"), I called the Passat guy and asked him if I can look at the car since I make the trip. The A4 looked awful in person (nasty, dirty seats you couldn't see in the photos - off-white leather; sludge; wrong coolant, etc) so I passed.
Met with the Passat guy and had a "test" ride - he drove. I liked the way it rode, so I said I would come back in two days (Sunday) to do the papers as we agreed on the price (from $ 4950 down to $ 4400). I thought was a pretty good deal at the time... he said that the TB was replaced, as he supposedly took it to the mechanic, he replaced the PCV hoses as he had to pass the Emission Inspection (still have the paper), two brand new tires on the back, and something else I can't remember.
When I came back on Sunday, it was snowing like there's no tomorrow... We did the papers in the car, he didn't even invite us in the house. It should have raised a flag, but I'm too gullible sometimes and believe in people... He promised he will detail the car, which he didn't do, and he also just then told me that the mechanic actually just checked the TB and was recently replaced.
I know, I should have walked away - but I wanted to get my wife a better, newer DD to replace the rusting Elantra wagon, and not make the 500 miles round trip a waste... Of course, we did the transaction "off EBay" - which undoubtedly is a big no-no.
I don't know if he indeed had no clue about the car (car was in his wife's name), or he's a sheister that makes a buck on the side by reselling cars he buys for next to nothing - although why would you bother to register them? beats me...

A better and more thorough look at the car was out of question in that snow, but it should have been a must. Oh well...
I don't regret the purchase, it's just that I need to stop being too trusting in people at times.
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GLX - I'll tie up those PS fluid lines and thanks a bunch for the torque specs. I'll keep you guys posted.
 
#11 ·
The back of it though has no weld and it looks "straight".
It probably cracked across the one side but not all the way through.


I got one wheel that was welded as well
Are we talking steel wheels? You can have my original spare wheel if you want it. I've got an alloy one now so I'll never need the steel one. It's a regular 15" steel rim with a tire on it.
 
#13 ·
Steve,
I appreciate the wheel offer, but I got 7Jx16 (37 offset) Road of America on her, although the Options sheet says that the car came with 8Jx18 wheels:
X9A = National sales program USA
B0D = Component parts set, complying with vehicle type for USA (without California), various parts
C4Q = Alloy wheels 8J x 18
G0Q = 5-speed automatic transmission for four-wheel drive vehicle
H4B = All-weather tires 205/55 R16 H (NAR)
J0R = Battery 380 A (80 Ah)
M70 = 6-cyl. gasoline eng. 2.8 L/142 kW V6 5V LEV base engine is T7F
Q2J = Comfort front seats
1AH = Electronic differential lock (EDL)
1G2 = Steel spare wheel with original equipment tires
2ZB = Leather multi-function steering wheel
5RR = Right exterior mirror: convex (US)
5SH = Left exterior mirror: flat (US)
T7F = 6-cylinder gasoline engine 2.8 L unit 078.2
3FE = Electric slide/tilt sunroof with sun screen/sunblind
3S2 = Black roof rails
QG0 = Without service interval prolongation
8US = Radio "Premium" (double-size standard radio)
8GL = Alternator 120 A
9VG = Sound system "Monsoon"
1LE = Disc brakes, front
0JL = Weight category front axle weight range 11
0YU = Weight range 19 installation control only, no requirement forecast
1BA = Standard suspension/shock absorption
0GM = Emission standard LEV 1
Thanks for the wrecking yard tip - I'll use it on the first opportunity to drive to Chicago (I live 250 miles West).
 
#15 ·
So true!
We also only bought over the years just two new ones: an Altima back in Feb '96 when I moved for a brief time to Chicago (traded in a Cutlass Sierra Supreme - that was a pretty good car, but the starter happened to take a dump and at the time I knew nothing much about cars) and then in Dec' 99 the Elantra wagon (is a "2000") when we wanted to lower payments and manage the budget better, as I started school in Jan 2000.
This Passat should be a replacement for the Elantra - yeah, we kept it for almost 15 years! -, which started to rust and the paint on the roof is beyond repair. However, that's my fault, as I stopped to care about it after I bought the A6 in Dec' 2009.
(There's a pattern here - I buy cars only in the Winter! :thumbdown . It just happens, as that's the time when I had more free time on hand to search around, but I should break that "habit")
We had many others as second cars: Oldsmo Delta 88, GMC Sierra, Pontiac Le Mans, Ford Taurus, but since I got the A6 I'm devilishly and mindlessly hooked on the VAG juice. The motto is "never again monthly payment", although the future can be unforeseeable.
Certainly from now on will be also a NO for the wife, as I want a car with manual transmission for my sanity and ...fun. It's just not time yet to rid off the A6, as the overhauled engine will probably outlast the car's body.
 
#18 ·
FYI- my car is a manual transmission, so those trans. coolant lines are not present on my car. I've found that the auto trans. has those lines on the B5.5, but IDK if the manual trans. B5.5 does or not...

Good work, and press on!
 
#20 ·
Not that it makes a big difference to me (I don't like big size wheels anyway), but you put my mind at ease, Steve. tks.
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Bob, tks all the same. I didn't mean by that mentioning to bring any "critique" to your pic and the advice you gave at the time. Was just wondering why nobody mentions those transmission lines, including or starting with PhatCat guy who wrote the DIY for a V6.
 
#23 ·
Looking into getting a "new" knuckle. I'm a bit confused by the part numbers.
Would you guys be kind to distinguish which is the right one for the V6 ATQ, GLX 4Motion?
There are two numbers listed under ATQ and
8D0407253C and 8D0407257AM
If I search on vwpartscenter.net under 2003 Passat GLX 4Motion, and add the first part number to the shopping cart, it is described either under Mechanical or Collision catalog as
"Volkswagen-Passat front suspension, suspension components, knuckle Passat Left w/o 4.0L 1998-05", sign that it is compatible with the car.
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If I type the second part number. 8D0407257AM, then the result is:
"Part Number "8D0407257AM" was found for Volkswagen , but we could not verify the part fits the selected vehicle.
You may still purchase this part below."
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I would suppose the xxxx253C is the right part number, but better to measure 10 times (with 10 extra pairs of eyes :) ) and only cut once, as a tailor might say...
tks a bunch
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P.S I will have to get probably a new bearing and press it in, huh? :rolleyes:
 
#24 ·
There seems to have been a change in 2003, so it depends on your VIN # as to which one fits your car. I haven't ordered from vwpartscentet.net, but call or email them with your VIN# and they can confirm the correct part#.
With 1stwvparts.com and jimellisvwparts.com if you include your VIN# on the order they always confirm the parts are correct for your car. Both are very nice and helpful when you call or email, so I would go that route before ordering.

Don't forget a new axle bolt to go along with your new bearing and knuckle.

8D0407257AM = For vehicles with VIN up to 3B-3-072 000 only, split is in the 2003 model year

8D0407253C = For vehicles with VIN from 3B-3-072 001 only, split is in the 2003 model year
 
#25 ·
Mine is - xxxxxxx3B53E072945 so I should be after the split, hence the correct one would be indeed the 253C knuckle.
I looked at both knuckles in the car and they're 8D0407257 and 8D0407258. I guess I will call the/a dealership and confirm the correct part number.
Will get an axle bolt along with the new bearing - good thing I have a neighbor with a shop press.
And that's how one thing leads to another :lol: (it always is that way - same was with the Audi). Now I'm thinking to get a new bearing for the other side as well - better to replace them in pairs. While I'll take the knuckle/s off, now I'm thinking that would be a good time to replace all the suspension...LOL
Probably I'll look into that Meyle HD kit from FCP... Dang, what was the name of that song years back, "Never ending story"? :D (wow, it has been 30 years!!!)
Thanks kindly, sir.
 
#28 ·
Ok, did quite a bit of work today and I'm about ready to pop loose the cam sprockets.
I have a gut feeling that it's better to ask and appear clueless, than screw up and be a moron.
With the A6 experience in mind, I haven't spent yet money on Bentley for the Passat (Bentley was in many cases not more helpful than the write-ups in the AudiForums, although I bought it and still have it - for the C4 platform). I bought though a Chilton and the TB "ultimate" kit from Blau came with instructions. However...
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At this stage Chilton says (I'll edit a bit to make it shorter):
"
18. Cam sprockets must be loosened and separated from taper on the camshafts so they rotate freely during TB tensioning process. ( of course). Using the cam alignment tool to hold sprockets in place, loosen the sprocket retaining bolts (I did that and then I stopped). Remove the crankshaft locking tool and rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise slightly so the engine is not at TDC, then remove the cam alignment tool. Use a two jaw puller to separate the sprockets from the taper/s on the camshafts and reinstall the sprocket bolts finger tight, making sure the sprockets rotate freely on the taper of the camshafts.
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BlauParts instructions mention nothing about removing the crank pin and turning the crank clockwise, off the TDC. So apparently they don't remove the crank pin and just pop loose the cam sprockets. (which I did on the A6 without rotating the crank off TDC.
With respect to Chilton, from "loosen the sprocket retaining bolts" to "reinstall the sprocket bolts" I read in between the lines that whomever performed the procedure for them and wrote the instructions either forgot to mention removing entirely the bolts so they would be reinstalled "finger tight", or it must have made a typo that made it through the editing/pagination process. Am I reading wrong the text?
Anyway, although related to screwing up the camshafts position/timing in relationship to changing chain tensioner or chain tensioner gasket, I have seen before Tom's instructions to as well turn the crank
1) Turn the crank to TDC.
2) Compress the tensioner using an Allen wrench (clockwise) in the tensioner roller, and fit the pin in the tensioner.
3) Remove the Timing Belt.
4) Turn the crank to about 45 degrees before TDC. (valves can't hit pistons in this position)
5) Remove the cam pulleys, and refit leaving them just loose enough to turn freely.
6) Then turn the exhaust cams so the large holes in the pulley plates are facing inwards (toward each other), and fit the cam locking bar. (Use the bar to turn the cams)
I do question a bit why the Chilton steps involve rotating the crank and Blau's not, while making me apprehensive about it because I didn't have to rotate the crank on the Audi. It stayed TDC until I finished the job and rotated the engine by hand two-three times.
I do understand that since the TB is off, rotating the crank doesn't affect at all the timing on the cams, as they don't rotate together anymore. Also I understand that's an extra "measure" to eliminate any risk of valve damage, but since the back cover with the "timing" alignment arrow is off the car, I don't want the crank to move anywhere, as I need to remove the crank pulley to change the crank seal.
In conclusion, is this step really needed without messing up the crank position and being out of TDC while unlocked? What if by any freakish accident the cams move at the same time as I remove the pulleys without the cam locking bar on? How am I suppose to get everything back to TDC if that happens?
Thanks a lot for any pointers.
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P.S I'll change all the camshaft seals, so the sprockets would have to come off anyway. Moreover, I might even pull the heads out, depending on what I find upon removing the valve covers. All the spark plugs where literally covered by oil, you couldn't even see their tips. I'll post some clips when I process them.
 
#29 ·
You are correct removing the crank locking pin and turning the crank 45º counter clockwise is a safety measure. It is not part of the Bentley instructions, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea.
I followed the Bentley and used several DIY's for reference and did not move the crank 45º and had not cam movement and no issues. I just made sure to keep the cam locking bar in place every second I could during the process and only removed it when needed. Easier to work around it than risk movement.
As for pulling the sprockets; just loosen the bolt about 4 turns this way the sprocket and everything doesn't go flying when it Pops loose.
Don't know if this helps?
 
#30 ·
I need to keep it on until I pop the sprockets, since I'll remove them for seal replacement. The crank movement is what actually I am concerned with, and right now I need to remove the crank bolt so that extra step halted my work.
I thought that by putting the cams and crank at TDC it's not only for keeping the perfect timing/alignment, but also by using the locking tools nothing can intermingle, so to speak. Otherwise what's the point of using the tools? You can eye-o-meter 30-45° from the crank arrow alignment and turning it back from there, probably that's why some people don't use the tools and just employ making marks everywhere.
Anyway, enough ranting on my part.
Thanks a million for popping in (a dully pun intended :) ) in perfect timing (another one :) ) and confirming I'm not nuts (well, up to a point)
Will keep u guys posted - gotta process later thye photos and a few video clips, though I still want to work another hour.
cheers
 
#31 · (Edited)
I stitched together (and edited/shortened) the video clips and currently uploading the end result "movie" of Friday's work.
It will be available at:


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I have a ton of photos as well, but the movie summarizes pretty well the work I have done so far.
When pulling the spark plug wire boots, they were soaked in oil - and so the spark plugs. I could only see the very tip of two plugs, the others were completely submersed in oil.
The accessory belt tensioner pulley was/is pretty noisy, so I'm glad I caught it at the right time. The TB tensioner roller and idler roller are fine, but I will replace them anyway.
The water pump has on the housing two round stamps "99" and "00", which makes me think it's the original (old stock of pumps used in a 2003 production?).
I haven't removed it yet, as I ran out of time Friday evening (yesterday -Saturday - I worked so no garage time), but I am curious if it has an old plastic impeller. There are no signs of leaking though - 127,750 miles on the clock. will see...
Also, I am very eager to get the valve covers off and see how the heads look like. Definitely the cover gaskets need badly a replacement, judging by the incredible amount of crud on the outside, and the oil engulfed spark plugs.
I work today as well, so not sure if I'll be able to do anything in the garage.
 
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