Most Puzzling/Confusing B5 V6 Passat GLS (Manual) Problem EVER!!

[zmar4893]

“So, you have:
1. New Starter
2. New Alternator and belts
3. New battery

symptoms used to be:
1. a couple of clicks when you turned the key to start, and then nothing happened.
2. since replacing battery, starter, and alternator, the engine sorta slow rolls, but sometimes will not start.”

BOTTOM LINE: Car won’t start intermittently. Battery dies and acts like it is dying even when fully charged. New alternator. New starter. New battery clamps. Clean terminals. Tested for draw. No solution.

If you feel like reading the story, I’ve made it a little easier to read and you can read on:

Ok story time. About a month, but what seems like forever ago, my car wouldn't start. I could hear the "click click" which to me indicated a bad starter. I was in denial so I got my battery tested at Advance Auto Parts. They said the starter wasn't getting enough power because the battery was old. I bought a new one on the spot. Anyway, the problem didn’t go away. It would start many times in a row: perfectly healthy. I decided it’s my starter and changed it with a “new” one from a junkyard. The problem STILL didn’t go away. Pop starting became my friend very quick. So I went to AutoZone and got my OLD starter tested. It "passed" whatever test they perform so I put THAT one in thinking maybe it WASN’T my starter.
My positive wire was very corroded so I put new clams on and cleaned everything up. That didn’t help.
I decided maybe my junkyard pars were the problem so I installed a BRAND new starter. I think that solved the no start problem as far as engine not turning over at all. But then maybe a week later I got another no start problem; it would turn over slowly when I DID start, and sometimes would just have a dead battery. Also, as I do drive, my headlights will slightly dim as I hit the clutch, and the heat will fade at the same time.
I tested for draw. My mechanic tested for draw. The ground wire was all cleaned up previously. My alternator had been changed with a junkyard one maybe a month and a half ago. However, I bought a brand new one and installed it. That didn’t help the current issue.

[JayTheSnork]

when it does it, is the engine cold, or warm? does the engine turn over at all, or just just make clicks?

[zmar4893]

when it does it, is the engine cold, or warm? does the engine turn over at all, or just just make clicks?

It used to click twice and not start till I roll started it but at some point when I was replacing things that problem went "away" and a new one started where it would like start to crank slowly and start or crank REALLY slowly and not start at all-usually when it's cold

[JayTheSnork]

so, you have:
1. New Starter
2. New Alternator and belts
3. New battery

symptoms used to be:
1. a couple of clicks when you turned the key to start, and then nothing happened.
2. since replacing battery, starter, and alternator, the engine sorta slow rolls, but sometimes will not start.

are those the facts? I put it in lists, because it is really hard to read run-on sentences without punctuation and tthe ocassional carriage return...

[ylwagon]

it is really hard to read run-on sentences without punctuation and the occasional carriage return...

At least Jay read through all that, I didn't. Advice to posters: Avoid a long story. keep the questions direct and to-the-point, the observations clear and on-topic, the grammar and punctuation understandable.

[vwb5t]

have you checked all the grounds?

[zmar4893]

so, you have:
1. New Starter
2. New Alternator and belts
3. New battery

symptoms used to be:
1. a couple of clicks when you turned the key to start, and then nothing happened.
2. since replacing battery, starter, and alternator, the engine sorta slow rolls, but sometimes will not start.

are those the facts? I put it in lists, because it is really hard to read run-on sentences without punctuation and tthe ocassional carriage return...

Alright boys I get it! Sorry for the bad grammar I was on lunch and on my little phone had no time to edit. Will do so later tonight but for now he's got it down in the quote above here. not sure when the symptoms changed from one to the other, but I was replacing a lot of parts. He's got the bottom line. Thanks for the responses. As far as grounds, I mean I used a volt meter to check the battery and terminals but I'm not sure how to do much more than that; please explain? Also, my mechanic did check for draw so...I don't know if that answers that.

[LazloZ28]

When you jumped it did you hook the jump box directly to the battery or did you ground the jump box to the engine? I'm kind of leaning towards a bad ground, probably engine to chassis but check battery to chassis as well. Voltage drop test will tell you if it's bad connection/wire but your mechanic should know this stuff. Set voltmeter to dc volts, one lead on neg battery terminal, other lead on engine(best to do this on starter case but anywhere metal on engine will do) then have someone crank the engine. Lower the number the better here, if you read anything more than a few tenths voltage you need to clean or replace your grounds. You can also do the same test from positive battery terminal to the positive terminal on the starter, again lower number is better. Only other thing i can think of might be the solenoid switch, don't know if it's on the starter on these cars or remote mounted.

[zmar4893]

@LazloZ28 thanks for the help, I'll be doin that tonight. Been kinda busy lately and just stole the loaner car from work temporarily. Thanks for all the responses. I'll post results of the voltage drop test later tonight.

@vwb5t
I did clean out the main ground from the battery. So THAT one's good

[ScottPassat2.8]

what voltage is the alternator putting out with nothing on and car running?
with headlights and rear defroster on?
got any aftermarket stuff like radio or amp that can be drawing power?
trunk light off with trunk closed?

[hu vw]

Ccm?

[Craymac]

le fuse 14?

[zmar4893]

@lazloz28 also when I jumped it it was always directly to the battery

[zmar4893]

what voltage is the alternator putting out with nothing on and car running?
with headlights and rear defroster on?
got any aftermarket stuff like radio or amp that can be drawing power?
trunk light off with trunk closed?

Trunk light confirmed off when trunk closed and NO aftermarket accessories whatsoever. Ill post data from tests tonight

[zmar4893]

le fuse 14?

Fuse 14 has been checked and is fine

[zmar4893]

Ccm?

I didn't think of that. Could be. Ill look into it thanks

[AndreasPassat]

Do you have heated morrors?
Those have been known to be pesky culprits in the past.

Also, on V6 models (I cant speak for the 1.8's) there is a bus bar type connection on the lower right front of the car.
It's located on the inside of the engine compartment at the bottom of the front right inner fender well.
This can get ugly nasty with corrosion, seeing as its wide open to the elements. It's about 3/4 inches square by about 2 to 3 inches long and is white in color.
I'll post a pic later today.

[JayTheSnork]

zmar, iirc there is a ground under the dead pedal that you ought to look at and clean/scuff up so it makes good electrical contact.

what part of CT are you in?

[zmar4893]

zmar, iirc there is a ground under the dead pedal that you ought to look at and clean/scuff up so it makes good electrical contact.

what part of CT are you in?

I'm from Southington...just next to Bristol/Meriden area. But I also commute to school in New Haven every week.

Do you have heated morrors?
Those have been known to be pesky culprits in the past.

Also, on V6 models (I cant speak for the 1.8's) there is a bus bar type connection on the lower right front of the car.
It's located on the inside of the engine compartment at the bottom of the front right inner fender well.
This can get ugly nasty with corrosion, seeing as its wide open to the elements. It's about 3/4 inches square by about 2 to 3 inches long and is white in color.
I'll post a pic later today.

Thanks for the suggestions I'll check everything out on Monday because I got sent out of state for family matters.

[AndreasPassat]

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It is much eaier to see on mine because the whole front end is removed.

The black curved thing under the front of the motor mount is what I'm talking about.
Underneath it is white.

[soundguybob]

issues with the CCM will not cause the type of issue you're experiencing.

Have you tried jumping power directly to the starter solenoid?

I'm betting you either have a bad ignition switch, or possibly a bad starter interlock or alarm starter kill relay.

[dbrick]

It is possible that one or both of the battery cables are defective: even 'tho the clamps are tight and clean, the electrical connection between the clamp and the cable (at either end of either cable) can be poor.

[Vaquaro]

issues with the CCM will not cause the type of issue you're experiencing.

Have you tried jumping power directly to the starter solenoid?

I'm betting you either have a bad ignition switch, or possibly a bad starter interlock or alarm starter kill relay.

Same symtoms on my B5 V6 4mo last year , changed out the ignition switch ....End of problem ( easy 1/2 hr. fix )

[soundguybob]

I've also experienced oxidization on the inside of the battery terminals, almost like a clear film. Although they looked clean, they still needed cleaned. I'm still banking on the ignition switch, though...

[Passat2.8]

I would jump the starter relay to test that it is indeed the ignition switch.

[zmar4893]

Wow, I think I owe everyone in apology for not posting for a while. I'm form CT and we had quite the storm. I'm a volunteer firefighter and we were a little busy over the past week. I just remembered I hadn't updated everyone on the situation but it turns out that I actually got a faulty brand new alternator. It was only charging at 12V for some reason. We replaced it again and it works perfectly. In fact, my entire starting problem has been solved. I haven't had any problems since before the storm. It's a fresh, healthy start every time. Thanks for all the responses everyone. Sorry for the delay.