Help! Ultimate B-5 Crisis "Fix or Scrap"

[SMT3621]

So, I have a 98 Passat GLS 1.8. My very first VW, bought close to 5 years ago for 4k with 70k in mileage used and probably abused. Suckered or not, I've fallen in love with this car. I'm sure many of you can relate, there's just something about your VW that you just cant say no to her. It's far from an ideal ride and has a freaking page long list of problems. Call it a $ pit if you want but I'm trying to stay optimistic, so take it easy on me lol. This is a real tough decision on my part to either stick by her side until she craps out, or fix her up little by little. Shall we begin? I'll provide you a detailed list of problems, and you can make your suggestions. Thanks in advance.

1. Mechanical issues seem endless. I have to start the car by applying the brake, turning the key, popping it into reverse and then back into park and she starts like a charm. Can't say that's a standard anti-theft feature. I need a new driver window motor. I believe it's the ball joints that need replaced, but at low speed you can hear a hollow creaking as you go over small "bumps" in the roadway. Driver door key hole is no good, will just rotate as many times as you feel like turning the key lol. Trunk latch doesn't catch or something so the trunk is never secure. Had/having a leaking issue with my sunroof drains. It's smelling musty inside, and even rusted out the sunroof sliding panel which I need to remove and replace as well.

2. Electrical problems out the ass. The alarm goes off every time I enter/exit the car. The sunroof works when it wants even on its own at times. Rear driver turn signal shorts out all the time. Stereo cant go above "half volume" or it goes in and out. A variety of electronic features do not function; cruise control, heated seats, lights (again, works when they want to) I end up exchanging the battery every 6 months because something is slowly draining it when the car is parked for a few days until it just dies. Check Engine light seems to think we're at a rave with how often it comes and goes.

The car runs. She's a beast. Just over 100k in mileage now. Still dependable, but for how much longer is the question. I am saving to have her looked at completely hoping a VW shop can diagnose her every issue and to get a list of needed repairs. I've read on things like the sunroof drainage problems. I've unclogged the front driver/passenger tubes and altered them so that the flap doesn't stick. I still need to locate and fix the rear though. I know I can get a few things much cheaper used at junk yards like the window motor and sunroof panel. I refuse to pay dealer prices on fixes I can manage with the help of the friendlies on this site. Such as being quoted close to $200 to clean out the sunroof drains. Eff that mess. I did the front two in under 30 minutes yesterday just from reading other posts on here. I'd love to keep her. She's a fighter and has been great for me. I'd feel as if I'm giving up on her if I just let her die out.

Any and all help or ideas is greatly appreciated, just take it easy on me

[NEWMAN'SOWN]

Like any major financial decision in life my advice would be to do as you planned (get an itemized list written down of what needs to be done and the costs associated with said repairs) and weigh the pros and cons of keeping the car vs getting a new one.

1) can't help you with the trans issue, I've never owned an auto car.

2) driver window motor is an easy fix with junkyard parts.

3) Creaking is most likely not ball joints, but control arms that need replacement. This is pretty easy to DIY, and the cost is not that high. (I highly reccomend the upgrade to S4 arms)

4) Driver barrel spinning is another common problem, but luckily is fairly easy to fix.

5) Trunk latch, again this sounds like a pretty simple thing to fix.

6) I hear you on the sunroof, maintaining the drains is a must (bit of a PITA TBH) Parts are so cheap for these cars, that I would recommend finding a donor car and getting all of the assemblies from said vehicle and replacing (sunroof, headliner, etc.)

7) Electrical problems sound like a CCM issue (most likely from improperly maintained sunroof drains, which I am guessing is also the cause of your musty smell and rust in the vehicle)

If you are really stuck on staying with a B5, plenty of clean examples can be had for under 6k. It may be better to find a pristine example and cut your losses.

[aeb-reid]

You will constantly have problems. I have three vw. Always problems. The drains on my wife's super get clogged.. Figure vw would fix that in a 30 year difference.. Nope. Anyway I love my passat. 3 transmissions 2 engines and countless other parts. You always have to fix things.. Sometimes it's like you wanna drive it off a cliff. When I'm thinking about getting rid of my passat I don't drive it for a week or two, then I hop in it and I love it and all it's defects. You should try it. Then get a parts car(it really makes a difference).

[aeb-reid]

Wow his post wasn't there when I typed mine

[B5 aus Mosel]

junkyards and parts cars. thats how ive been keeping mine going. and getting to know parts managers at the dealer. honestly i wont give mine up until i crash it or it rusts out on me, the former seems more likely. these cars will go on forever or as long as you want to keep fixing them.

[SMT3621]

All sounds good guys, thanks. I'll call around when I get the chance, we have a few junk yards around here. I have been messing around with my car all day. I removed the sunroof shade, that's trash. Sunroof drainage problems are now fixed. My headliner shows water damage and looks to be trash as well so I removed that also. I suppose until I can get her into a VW shop, I won't throw too much $ into it. Just the window motor alone is $150 used. Thank god it's still winter. I can see it all adding up but if I knock it out little by little I think I'll survive. I get so excited thinking what she could be like after all the work, but the big question is still there. How much is too much? Maybe I should just throw that towards a newer car. I don't want a car payment. So I'd go used again, guess I'll just have to be mad thorough on my homework with the new vehicles history. I don't know guys. I'll post again after I get into a shop. Until then, thanks again I really appreciate all your advice and the time you took to reply.

[macaddiict]

I was in your shoes about a year ago. My '98 was my first VW, and I'd bought it with about 70k. I didn't have nearly the amount of problems you do, but I did need to do the typical stuff like timing belt, suspension, etc. AND I had hail damage and paint problems.

I really enjoy this car and couldn't even think of getting rid of it at the time, but I have to be very honest with you: I should have gotten rid of it. While the repairs will be expensive on paper when you get your list back, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

You have some issues that are very unusual sounding, and I'd bet you have a lot of corroded wiring from the water leaking in. A musty car = the whole interior needs to be pulled and possibly replace the carpet and who knows what else. Fixing corroded wiring on a car is a nightmare project.

In the end, I spent WAY too much money, time, and energy fixing up my Passat, and you know what? It looks great and runs great now. But for the cost, I could have paid for a new VW. I'm not kidding.

And, when you're finally done with your project, you will have a 1998 Passat. Good luck getting your money back out of that! Or insurance money if someone hits it! Not wise financially.

When my other half's 2007 Murano started giving trouble, we went straight to the dealer and bought a CC with a warranty to replace the Murano. I learned my lesson. When you have an old car, there is a point where the car has so many issues the ONLY reasonable answer it to move on. Newer cars may not have the same features as our B5, but they are newer across the board and have better safety features.

My advice would probably be different if you were going to do all the repairs yourself, but if you need a shop to do some of this for you, I truly think you'd be better off saying your goodbyes now to your car.

I should also mention: if you don't have a second car that you can drive, you really really REALLY should not do this. Your Passat will be parked at the shop for weeks on end multiple times to get all this stuff fixed. When a shop gets a huge job in like this, they can't just drop every other customer and work on yours.

From one Passat owner to another, please consider what I'm saying. I'd love to save you the trouble of figuring it out on your own!

[cruster]

I just went through this myself, actually. I've got an '03 Passat, and coming up on 100k it needed some big maintenance stuff that I just can't find the time to do: timing belt, PCV system's plugged, control arms and shocks are gone. Add it all up and it's not cheap, especially when paying someone else. Here's how I am justifying doing it: first, it's all maintenance stuff...if I have ANY car up to 100k, I'll have similar "big" issues that need to be addressed. Some of that stuff might be more complex/expensive than on a Japanese car, but at 100k most cars will need some reconditioning/maintenance. Second, although expensive, the repairs are far cheaper than car payments on a new car...FAR cheaper...and my GLX wagon was pushing $40,000 when new - no way I'd be buying something that nice if I bought a new car.

So...fixing was the right choice for me.

That said, as I think a couple of folks have already alluded to...the issues with my car were maintenance things, typical Passat weaknesses, that are easily identified and fixed. You, sir (?), have...gremlins. Electrical/electronic stuff going wrong without any noted reason, and possible rust...that stuff gets expensive. I'm making fixes on a sound platform - you're chasing ghosts. I think I would lean towards the opinion above and say...you might wanna cut your losses. If it were me I think I'd tear into it OR have a trusted indy try to analyze, just to get a better sense of what's happening, and then make the call. If you can't easily determine a root cause or the scope of the problem(s), things could get expensive really quickly, and you may be better off moving on. It's a fantastic car on its day but your example is 15 years old - compound that with unidentified problems and you may be in for heartache if you start throwing money and time at it.

[BobbyShaftoe]

I agree with Macaddict and Cruster. I bought one, actually got it in trade for my old Dodge 4x4. Loved it from the beginning. She was an old car, and I knew she had a few issues, but after spending 20 years driving almost nothing but pick-up trucks, I was in love. I'm no mechanic, and usually farm out the big stuff, but I've never had much trouble keeping old beaters running. Not so with this car. This car is freaking strange to work on. It is not a pick up truck... nor is it a disposa-car like the old Tempo or the Toyota I had years ago.
My story really started when my control arm let go. suspension work is generally something I consider out of my league, so off to the indy she went. $2200 later I was stylin' around... for less than a hundred miles, before my main crank pulley bolt let go. I'll never know why. Zipped my valves right out. So I was faced with a choice: fix it or ditch it. My "quote" said $5k would get her running again with a newish motor ($3500 for a valve job). $5k would also get me another beater.... One without a brand new front end. Having "test driven" this car for a year, and all things being equal, I'd just as soon stick with it. Unfortunaltey, $5k was a tad optimistic. Closer to $7500 was what it really took to get it out of the shop. And that has proven to be just the beginning. I'm into this car for well over $14000..... for a 13 year old Volkswagen. Granted I farmed out $9000 worth of work, mostly because I'm not mechanically inclined enough to just throw down and pop one motor out and slide another in in its place; I'm an carpenter turned optician, not a mechanic.
I am married to this car. As much so as I am with the payments on my wife's new Ford. She'll be driving her "new" truck until it's paid off (2 years left) and then some, and I'll be driving this car until I've squeezed every last penny back out of her.

[GSO_Passater]

So, I have a 98 Passat GLS 1.8. My very first VW, bought close to 5 years ago for 4k with 70k in mileage used and probably abused. Suckered or not, I've fallen in love with this car. I'm sure many of you can relate, there's just something about your VW that you just cant say no to her. It's far from an ideal ride and has a freaking page long list of problems. Call it a $ pit if you want but I'm trying to stay optimistic, so take it easy on me lol. This is a real tough decision on my part to either stick by her side until she craps out, or fix her up little by little. Shall we begin? I'll provide you a detailed list of problems, and you can make your suggestions. Thanks in advance.

1. Mechanical issues seem endless. I have to start the car by applying the brake, turning the key, popping it into reverse and then back into park and she starts like a charm. Can't say that's a standard anti-theft feature.

This sounds like a Neutral Safety switch needing adjustment. It could also be a wet TCM under the passenger seat due to the sun roof issues.

I need a new driver window motor.

Check the PW Classified section for less costly options.

I believe it's the ball joints that need replaced, but at low speed you can hear a hollow creaking as you go over small "bumps" in the roadway.

Control arms will cost about $300 and a weekend of work. This is typical of a car with this many miles

Driver door key hole is no good, will just rotate as many times as you feel like turning the key lol.

The door lock mechinism is not good. Buy one from the PW Classifieds. This is also causing the alarm issue listed below.

Trunk latch doesn't catch or something so the trunk is never secure.

The spring in the latch has come loose. The latch either needs replaced (PW Classifieds) or repaired DIY section. It is an easy replace

Had/having a leaking issue with my sunroof drains. It's smelling musty inside, and even rusted out the sunroof sliding panel which I need to remove and replace as well.

2. Electrical problems out the ass. The alarm goes off every time I enter/exit the car.

This is the door lock problem. Check out the DIY section and Talgentix has some good DIY's for door lock repair

The sunroof works when it wants even on its own at times. Rear driver turn signal shorts out all the time. Stereo cant go above "half volume" or it goes in and out. A variety of electronic features do not function; cruise control, heated seats, lights (again, works when they want to) I end up exchanging the battery every 6 months because something is slowly draining it when the car is parked for a few days until it just dies.

The CCM (Comfort control module or something like that) may be wet, causing these issues It is located under the driver seat. Search for a DIY to get to it and what to investigate.

Check Engine light seems to think we're at a rave with how often it comes and goes.

Get the codes read at your FLAPS. Write them all down, all the numbers. Then report what codes were given, preferrably in the order they were given. This frequently give a clue as to what needs attention. With the bad sunroof drains, you will probably need to look at the CCM under the driver seat for water intrusion. There may be some wire splices that need attention in the harness or just the CCM box may be damp and need drying.

The car runs. She's a beast. Just over 100k in mileage now. Still dependable, but for how much longer is the question. I am saving to have her looked at completely hoping a VW shop can diagnose her every issue and to get a list of needed repairs. I've read on things like the sunroof drainage problems. I've unclogged the front driver/passenger tubes and altered them so that the flap doesn't stick. I still need to locate and fix the rear though. I know I can get a few things much cheaper used at junk yards like the window motor and sunroof panel. I refuse to pay dealer prices on fixes I can manage with the help of the friendlies on this site. Such as being quoted close to $200 to clean out the sunroof drains. Eff that mess. I did the front two in under 30 minutes yesterday just from reading other posts on here. I'd love to keep her. She's a fighter and has been great for me. I'd feel as if I'm giving up on her if I just let her die out.

Any and all help or ideas is greatly appreciated, just take it easy on me

There is nothing really serious here, but the decision is up to you. It is all DIY-able.

[SMT3621]

Excellent point and well said. Even though I might sink the $ into it, in the end all I'll have is a 98 Passat lol. Kinda put things in perspective there, I haven't looked at it like that, thanks!

[SMT3621]

GSO haha too bad you don't live down the street from me, you make it all sound so simple. But at least you've given me a place to start. Thank you very much, this should DEF simplify the process of locating the source a few issues right from the start

[SMT3621]

I'm feeling good right now, going to make a few calls and maybe even do some tinkering this weekend! Thanks everyone!!!!!!!!!

[ylwagon]

The sunroof works when it wants even on its own at times.

That's usually the roof potentiometer needing some TLC, common 0.5 hour job. But it sounds like this car has a long history of non-maintenance, and there's probably more wrong than the you even mentioned. There are too many decent Passats around at low prices to mess with this one, unless you want a long-term project.

[dieseldoggy]

The way I look at it is I found a car I like and I don't mind working on it for two reasons
1 its cheaper then payments on a new car.
2 I know what I have at the end of the day.

[GSO_Passater]

I took a 99V6/5spd with the original clutch to 293k miles. The driver seat was well worn. I bought the car with a broken timing belt and had to repair the heads. I did 2 other timing belt changes on the car before a minor accident claimed the car. I had no car payment the whole time and it only took about 5 years to go 180k miles. I have a 1.8 that had a sludge issue and a frozen turbo, and have now put 30k on it in less than a year on the road.

I have seen most of the issues you are experiencing between the two B5's and two MKIII's.

[Craymac]

No such thing as to much for my Passat. If I could I would be like a Crazy Cat Lady, But with Passats. I'd take em all in and fix em up, and wash em every weekend, Give em all Premium only, and oil changes every 3k, take em down to the track for a day. Yeeeeea, That's be the life. Me and like 45-50 Passats to call my own. Maybe someday... Maybe someday... lol

[Troy Jollimore]

@BobbyShaftoe: ...OUCH. As much as I love my Passat, I'd DEFINITELY have either gotten rid of the car, or shot myself, before I got THAT far into it... I'm into my 2000 for about $17k at this point, but that's including the purchase price as of 2006!

@SMT: I think the first comment summed it up. If you have the time and resources to 'waste', go for it. If you NEED the car, and don't have the time to work on it yourself, buy something newer and more reliable. The car payments hurt, but not having to touch anything for 6 months or more at a time makes up for it!

[SMT3621]

LMAO @ Craymac

@ Troy, not much time OR resources for this but if I had someone to take it off my hands for even a LITTLE cash whether it be to fix themselves or even part out, I'd jump at it. But there's just too many question marks here to know what exactly it is that I'm dealing with. It runs fine, I'd drive it TO you if you'd like a side project haha. But really my options are to either run her til she gives out without making the costly (?) repairs to just save and invest in something newer OR throw my limited funds into her and hope for the best lol.

[SMT3621]

This sounds like a Neutral Safety switch needing adjustment. It could also be a wet TCM under the passenger seat due to the sun roof issues.



Check the PW Classified section for less costly options.



Control arms will cost about $300 and a weekend of work. This is typical of a car with this many miles



The door lock mechinism is not good. Buy one from the PW Classifieds. This is also causing the alarm issue listed below.



The spring in the latch has come loose. The latch either needs replaced (PW Classifieds) or repaired DIY section. It is an easy replace



This is the door lock problem. Check out the DIY section and Talgentix has some good DIY's for door lock repair



The CCM (Comfort control module or something like that) may be wet, causing these issues It is located under the driver seat. Search for a DIY to get to it and what to investigate.



Get the codes read at your FLAPS. Write them all down, all the numbers. Then report what codes were given, preferrably in the order they were given. This frequently give a clue as to what needs attention. With the bad sunroof drains, you will probably need to look at the CCM under the driver seat for water intrusion. There may be some wire splices that need attention in the harness or just the CCM box may be damp and need drying.



There is nothing really serious here, but the decision is up to you. It is all DIY-able.

So I have been poking around, trying to follow your leads and troubleshooting from there. Heres what I've found so far...

The trunk latch mechanism looks to maybe have a piece broken off within all of it's gadgets, hard to be sure. With all the other issues, this will remain at the bottom of my list of priorities.

The sunroof isn't a huge issue for me, but that too looks to have jammed and messed up a piece in the process. Right now I am happy with it just being closed all the way lol.

Checked and cleaned out all drains I could find, 4 sunroof drains as well as the battery compartment which was loaded with pine needles and gross looking stuff.

I've heard so much talk with the CCM and TCM, so that was my next project. I actually felt like I was accomplishing something when I finally was able to pull the CCM out after snapping a clip or two in the process. I'd like to suggest they commit to one form of securing the panels in the car. I swear, you need a phillps here, a flat there, allen wrenches, a socket set etc. Just make a decision and stick with it. Sorry, moving on lol. Foot well looked great, dry and clean. I opened the CCM box and was pleased to see it all looking brand new. Even checked out the circuit board, clean. So I'm feeling good right, on a roll, wrapped it in a trash bag and zip tied the hell out of it bc I'm a noob and that's all I had available. Got it all back in no problem. Moved on the to passenger side for the TCM, pumped expecting the same... yeah, not such a great feeling lol.

The housing looks gross, but the mod itself looks completely fine to me, can I test it in anyway to be sure?

Click to enlarge.


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IMG_8604.jpg


photo 1 (1).jpg


photo 2.jpg

So I'm no expert but I'm pretty screwed at this point. I heard these things are costly. The wires being corroded like they are looks like a nightmare in itself. I don't know what to do at this point lol. I was on a roll and guess I got a little excited thinking the other side was just as clean as the driver side. Do I just look for a new TCM? What about the wires? Is there a simple fix? Some already "put together" harness I can get and throw in? I'm not into the idea of replacing individual ones (wires) or splicing or any of that advanced mess lol.

So this will be my only focus right now, if this gets resolved I'll move on to the control arms. I'm not using the car right now, we have other vehicles, but I would like to get it taken care of asap.

My ? is I didn't really expect this to be the problem bc it's not giving me the issues I've read others talking about. The car runs fine, absolutely fine. There are no hiccups in the way she drives/handles. The only features that DON'T work are really just my heated seats, head unit going in and out and the cruise control. Idk man. Idk.

I appreciate all your help so far, you've lead me in the right direction. I hate to single you out lol but you've given me my sense of direction here lol so I'm afraid I'm that stray cat that you've fed once already, I'm not going anywhere haha.

[Troy Jollimore]

If things were in THAT bad shape, right now your car would be a paper-weight. I'd say your TCM is probably fine, and if those wires don't have any breaks in their insulation, they're probably fine, too. What you'll want to do is trace the wires and look for splices or other types of joins/connections. That's where the water will work it's way in and short things out. It sounds like most of your issues are wiring related, except for the control arms. They take the most time (and scare away the most buyers), but it sounds like with other cars to use, you have all kinds of that. Just keep with it and you'll get it eventually.

If your control arms are just squeaking, you're probably good to keep things as they are. Don't fix those until you need the car 'on the road' more often. I couldn't isolate the squeak, so I just ordered the full Meyle S4 upgrade kit from FCP Groton and did 'em all... Costs a little bit.

[BobbyShaftoe]

I was a bit intimidated by the wiring harness on the CCM module on my car (I had electrical issues this winter related to the moisture I was tracking in with the snow) but once I got the crappy tape stripped off and started following wires, it really wasn't that bad. Not as scary as it looks at first. Like Troy said, just worry about the connections. Do only one at a time and you'll have that beat in an afternoon.

Now, I'm just guessing here, but that looks like a wrecker's TCM.... I'm thinking someone already replaced it once with a salvaged unit. (The writing looks like something the auto wreckers around here put on the parts they are cataloging).

[theNofJboy]

Do all 98 1.8T AEB engines have the TCM? I took out the front passenger side carpeting & there was nothing, except a chunk of Styrofoam. The piece of styrofoam was about the same size as the box that the CCM was in.

Maybe early 98 models dont have the TCM, even though ive seen pics of the AEB TCM..

Im trying to help out the OP. Thanks PW.

[BobbyShaftoe]

Sorry if I'm speaking out of turn, but AFAIK, only cars fitted with an automatic transmission have the TCM. Cars with a manual tranny have nothing on the passenger side. In my car, I am the TCM.

[spazzpez]

I respect those who have time and ability to do all of those repairs. My 99 v6 is acting funky as well - when I lock my doors the alarm goes off.. Never did that before today.. The control arms need replacing, the CV axles need replacing, valve cover gaskets, timing belt, sunroof assembly, electronics.... etc etc.

I must say best of luck to you, and grab a Haynes manual! Those have helped me in repairing my passat little by little!

[2kpassat1.8t]

I respect those who have time and ability to do all of those repairs. My 99 v6 is acting funky as well - when I lock my doors the alarm goes off.. Never did that before today.. The control arms need replacing, the CV axles need replacing, valve cover gaskets, timing belt, sunroof assembly, electronics.... etc etc.

I must say best of luck to you, and grab a Haynes manual! Those have helped me in repairing my passat little by little!

If you don't mind a bit of soldering, these two posts helped me a couple of years back take care of my unpredictable alarm:

VWVortex.com - NOT a DIY for Door Lock Module Dissasembly and Repair
taligentx.com: Passat - Door Lock Mechanism Repair

[xerces]

I was in your shoes about a year ago. My '98 was my first VW, and I'd bought it with about 70k. I didn't have nearly the amount of problems you do, but I did need to do the typical stuff like timing belt, suspension, etc. AND I had hail damage and paint problems.

I really enjoy this car and couldn't even think of getting rid of it at the time, but I have to be very honest with you: I should have gotten rid of it. While the repairs will be expensive on paper when you get your list back, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

You have some issues that are very unusual sounding, and I'd bet you have a lot of corroded wiring from the water leaking in. A musty car = the whole interior needs to be pulled and possibly replace the carpet and who knows what else. Fixing corroded wiring on a car is a nightmare project.

In the end, I spent WAY too much money, time, and energy fixing up my Passat, and you know what? It looks great and runs great now. But for the cost, I could have paid for a new VW. I'm not kidding.

And, when you're finally done with your project, you will have a 1998 Passat. Good luck getting your money back out of that! Or insurance money if someone hits it! Not wise financially.

When my other half's 2007 Murano started giving trouble, we went straight to the dealer and bought a CC with a warranty to replace the Murano. I learned my lesson. When you have an old car, there is a point where the car has so many issues the ONLY reasonable answer it to move on. Newer cars may not have the same features as our B5, but they are newer across the board and have better safety features.

My advice would probably be different if you were going to do all the repairs yourself, but if you need a shop to do some of this for you, I truly think you'd be better off saying your goodbyes now to your car.

I should also mention: if you don't have a second car that you can drive, you really really REALLY should not do this. Your Passat will be parked at the shop for weeks on end multiple times to get all this stuff fixed. When a shop gets a huge job in like this, they can't just drop every other customer and work on yours.

From one Passat owner to another, please consider what I'm saying. I'd love to save you the trouble of figuring it out on your own!

I'm in full agreement. Keep the beater as your donor and pickup another B5 without, or with less issues. I've dumped more money into mine then it's worth and just when I got everything peach and working perfect...lumpy engine idle.