Clutch Replacement on 1.8T Manual FWD
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  1. #1
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    Clutch Replacement on 1.8T Manual FWD

    It was a sad sad day for me today. For the past two weeks or so i have been hearing a little rattle at idle that i could not track down (through my research i was leaning toward throw out bearing) and my clutch or throw out bearing decided that it was done working while driving tonight. I went to shift from 4th --> 5th gear and it went out of 4th no problem then would not go into 5th at all. It wouldn't go into any gear at all unless the car was shut off and at a stop. I am trying to find a replacement clutch and throw out bearing and preferably new bolts for the flywheel too while its all apart.

    This weekend i will be forced to do a clutch job for the first time on my passat (i did several on mk3 golfs/jettas) I found a nice writeup on Audiworld. AudiWorld Tech Articles Anyone who has done this job before have anything to point out or take note of while doing it? What do you guys think?

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    the V6 and the 1.8T clutch replacement are pretty much the same. the biggest PITA (my opinion) is the allen on the shifter linkage - you have to have a 90 degree allen key to get to it, and the shorter end has to be ground down from whatever you would get as a standard allen key. another gotcha is the two lower bolts on the transmission - you have to have a bent wrench to get to these (V4VanGelder calls his a dog bone) and is a 16 or 18 mm IIRC. leave those two bottom bolts in the bell housing on the engine when you loosen them, do not pull them out - it will be easier to get them back in place later.

    how many miles did you get on your clutch?

  4. #3
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    Thanks for the response Jay, I have 266,xxx on my passat right now and i bought it at 180,xxx. i will make sure i have the allen key and dog bone wrench before i start the job. When i bought my car a few years ago the clutch released pretty high but held fine.

    I am in the process of ordering a new clutch (along with throw out bearing and flywheel) and not many places have them. Does anyone have any experience with replacing the original dual mass flywheel with a single mass flywheel? germanautoparts.com has them for sale and it is the cheapest route for me to go if i replace the flywheel. any thoughts there?

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    Don't forget a new pilot bearing as well!

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    I did the single mass flywheel (SMFW) conversion when I replaced my clutch at around 230K (and it likely had another 30K miles left on it when we replaced it). frankly, if you are not upgrading your engine to produce big power, I wouldn't go with a SMFW again - I'd stay with the DMFW. the DMFW has a much better feel and much easier engagement. I have a 1.8T A4 with a DMFW, a V6 A4 with a DMFW, and a V6 Passat with a SMFW, btw, so I know from whence I speak.

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    GermanAutoParts.com i was going to get this clutch kit. The reason for SMFW was strictly cost. The DMFW is $800 from what i found and the kit here comes with the SMFW for half that price. Jay you daily the v6 with SMFW right? How much stiffer is the pedal? as for upgrading my engine to produce big power, i plan to keep it relatively stock. I have a 91 octane APR file with cat delete, DV, and if my turbo died i would most likely put in a k04-15 as a replacement part.

  8. #7
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    Is the pilot bearing the same as the throw out bearing? forgive my lack of knowledge please

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    yes, I daily the V6. it isn't that the clutch pedal is stiffer with the SMFW... it's that the clutch engages faster at lower RPMs, and much slower at higher RPMs. the DMFW is more forgiving.

    the pilot bearing sits in the middle of the flywheel and is usually held in place with snap rings. the tip of the transmission input shaft sits in it.

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    pilot bearing is not in the flywheel on a 1.8t, its in the end of the crank snout and you need a special tool to get it out.

    as for the bottom bolts that go through the oil pan and into the tranny i found it much easier to loosen the bottom motor mounts and raise the engine up about 3-4 inches then you can get right in there from the front and get the bolts i managed to get a 1/2 inch impact in there to get them off. remove all the tranny bolts but the very top one use that to keep it all together until you are ready to pull the tranny off

    the shifter brace is better left on till you are ready to pull the tranny, then put a jack under the tranny loosen the remaining tranny to engine bolts, wiggle the tranny off the engine and slowly lower it a little bit then you can get a regular 8mm allen head socket with a ratchet on it no problem at all. do the opposite to get it back on.

    you can either leave the downpipe or remove it, it can be done both ways.

    before you remove the last tranny bolt, jack the tranny up and remove the tranny mounts as well as the passenger side tranny bracket it will make life much much easier, its 4 8mm allen heads and its off.

    dont forget the clutch slave cylinder, 6mm allen head then wiggle it out.

    dont forget the VSS plug and reverse light plug as well, also dont forget to plug them back in have done that before as well.

    take your time, dont expect it to take a couple hours put the whole day aside to get it done.

    make sure you have a 19mm 12 pt socket to hold the crank bolt so you can torque the flywheel, and get OEM bolts remember they are torque to yield so you must replace them and also stretch then when you install them for final torque

    use a helper if you can, it will make getting the tranny back on much much easier.

    thats all i remember for now if i think of something else i will mention it.

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    Thanks a lot vwb5t. I am going to be using online references for sure and i have a haynes manual to use too. If you want to make some money come up to MA and ill buy all the food/beer you want and let me know what you charge haha just kidding, ill figure it out. thank you for your input. if you happen to remember anything let me know. I want to get it done right the first time. I need to get a clutch alignment tool and make sure i have the 19mm 12 pt socket. do you think i should also replace the slave cylinder?

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    slave should be fine, i wouldnt replace it unless you have issues with it, just bleed it if it never has been so it has nice fresh fluid in it.

    oh and if you pull the plunger and rubber boot off the slave when you pull it out dont freak out just put the boot back on it and it will be fine. but make sure you dont touch the clutch pedal with the slave out or you will blow it. if you do let me know i have like 4 used slave cylinders from cars i parted.

    the clutch alignment tool should come with the clutch kit, where in MA are you? if your free tomorrow come on down to andover CT i will be replacing my power steering pump in my passat but i have the 19mm socket and clutch tool if you wanna borrow them. i also have all the parts from a manual tranny laying around if you wanna look at them so you have a better idea when you go to do the swap.

    lets put it this way, i've done a few passat and mk3 clutches i would rather do 2 passat clutches than deal with pulling 1 mk3 tranny. that is why when i do any work on my cabrio i pull the motor plan and simple, getting the tranny out and back in on a mk3 is one of the biggest damn pains in my ass i have ever done. twist push, twist swear, relclock it to get around the mount, swear some more, f*ck you frame rail, twist some more, swear again, try and line it up, lower the enigne raise the engine line it up again, swear some more, and finally it goes on after an hour of being pissed off and what damn rocket scientist thought it would be a brilliant idea to have the front motor mount also hold the starter so you have to support the engine just to do something simple like change the starter. but i digress end rant.

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    I have the Valeo SMFW clutch in my B5A4. It is fine for daily driving. Either the flywheel is sprung (DMFW) or the clutch disc is sprung (SMFW). Both accomplish the same effect.

    With the hydraulic clutch, the engagement point is always relatively high on the B5s.

    Clutch pedal feel is a function of the pressure plate.

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    I did 3 tranny/clutch swaps in mk3's and they were a pain in the ass to get the tranny out after its all disconnected. i hope the passat has more room to work. I am in Holland, MA (sturbridge area) which is about an hour or so away from you i believe. I only have my passat as a means of transportation at the moment but if i can get down to where you are tomorrow i will let you know. It would be fun to meet up and check out your cars!

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    Well i changed out the clutch flywheel and throw out bearing along with a new slave cylinder. I put everything back together and its not working. The clutch builds pressure when the car is off, but when its on the clutch feels like it has no pressure. We have bled the slave cylinder and there appears to be no bubbles coming out of the cylinder. My car will not go into gear right now with the car running.

    any ideas. has anyone encountered a similar problem before?

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    I am leaning toward a bad slave or master cylinder. if anyone has a blown up or descriptive picture of the hydraulic system i could see to start checking things. I am at a loss and very frustrated.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    how did you bleed the new slave? I've been told that using a Motive power bleeder is about the only way to force the bubbles out of one.

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    Bad pilot bearing.

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    Jay i bled the slave by pumping the clutch pedal while my brother opened and closed the bleeder valve, just like you would for brakes. He said there was no air bubbles. We did this several times to confirm.

    Zak is the pilot bearing the same as the throw out bearing?

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zak99B5 View Post
    Bad pilot bearing.

    Makes no sense.

    kennedy pilot and tob are different.

    Pilot bear just keeps the input shaft relatively stable, hence "pilot"

    tob pushes the fingers on the press plate in to disengage the clutch disc.


    With the car running does the clutch pedal return??

    How does the brake pedal feel?

    Did the reservoir run low when bleeding and suck in some air?

    Do you have access to a bleeder ball and power bleeder??

    If the clutch is not disengaging it should grind when trying to put the vehicle into gear.
    Could be it is stuck disengaged though...

    What EXACTLY happens when you try to shift into gear?

    Is the rattling noise still present?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonnatorr View Post
    Makes no sense.

    kennedy pilot and tob are different.

    Pilot bear just keeps the input shaft relatively stable, hence "pilot"

    tob pushes the fingers on the press plate in to disengage the clutch disc.


    With the car running does the clutch pedal return??
    Yes the clutch returns as normal. It did not however return when we were bleeding it. I had to pull it back out to do more pumps.

    How does the brake pedal feel?
    The brake pedal feels normal to me

    Did the reservoir run low when bleeding and suck in some air?
    It did not run low when we were bleeding, i kept topping it off as we were going in effort to try to avoid problems

    Do you have access to a bleeder ball and power bleeder??
    I purchased a motive power bleeder, but I'm not sure its working as it should (didn't build much pressure)

    If the clutch is not disengaging it should grind when trying to put the vehicle into gear.
    Could be it is stuck disengaged though...
    I think it would grind if i pushed it hard, but it won't go in normal so i don't want to force it. something is wrong with it.

    What EXACTLY happens when you try to shift into gear?
    When i try to shift it into gear it feels like its blocked by something. That is the only way i can describe it. when the car is off it goes right in. When it is on it will not.

    Is the rattling noise still present?
    The rattling noise is no longer present. It sounds quiet and normal, but will not go into gear. It really feels like the clutch will not disengage. Could a bad master clutch cylinder cause this?



    thank you for the reply. I am all ears right now and just want to get my passat back on the road where she belongs

  22. #21
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    Well...

    So if it only happens when the engine is on we can pretty much narrow down the issue to the clutch not disengaging. Especially if you you say it feels like if you push the shifter harder it would start to grind.

    It is normal for the clutch pedal not to return the first few times when bleeding.

    A bad master and or slave could cause this yes.

    If you crack a bleeder for one of the brakes does it push fluid out okay?

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    The brakes i believe are fine. I will try cracking one in the morning. At this point i am contemplating putting in a new slave and master clutch cylinder, bleeding them both, or taking it to a mechanic and biting the bullet. I feel the same way that the problem is the clutch not disengaging, but the only way it does is the hydraulic system, right? so air in the system could be the cause of the problem or a faulty cylinder (master or slave or both).

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    Ok I ended up replacing and bleeding the Clutch Master and Slave cylinders and after a while of bleeding and retesting, we decided to start the vehicle in first gear while on the lift. The wheels were turning however after a few pumps of the clutch pedal it seems to be working all good so far. I may bleed the system again just to make sure there is absolutely no air left in there, but the clutch feels great. Its smooth and seems to be holding well. Right now my pedal seems just a little bit lighter than before, which was unexpected by me. I will see how it feels after some more driving around and shifting gears.

  25. #24
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    When I had my SMFW and clutch installed, the pedal felt light at first then firmed up.

    Resonator: the pilot bearing allows the flywheel to turn and the input shaft to be stationary. If it's bad, then the flywheel will always be spinning the input shaft, so the effect is that the clutch never disengages. This happened on my A4.

  26. #25
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    zak never seen that happen.

    That pilot bearing would have to be siezed right onto that input shaft BADLY.

    Have replaced numerous vag clutches/flywheels/evaluated and fixed issues at the shop and never ever seen that happen.

    Thanks for the heads up; Now if we have a sympton like the op that is something we can think about inspecting if need be.

    Glad you got it all figured out kennedy.

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    sounds like the slave is having issues. i know v4vangelder spent over 4 hours bleeding his new slave the way you are doing it to get it working right, i just used a power bleeder and got it done in 15 seconds.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonnatorr View Post
    zak never seen that happen.

    That pilot bearing would have to be siezed right onto that input shaft BADLY.

    Have replaced numerous vag clutches/flywheels/evaluated and fixed issues at the shop and never ever seen that happen.

    Thanks for the heads up; Now if we have a sympton like the op that is something we can think about inspecting if need be.

    Glad you got it all figured out kennedy.
    that happened to me recently. i will now be replacing the pilot bearing every time the trans is out, which happens more than i care to think about....

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    Well if i need to take the transmission out again for any reason i will be sure to replace the pilot bearing. to be honest i didn't know about it or see it in any of the clutch kits until you posted about it. I have a motive power bleeder but i don't think i used it correctly before. i thought that it was supposed to supply the reservoir with fluid and pressure through the system so you just pump it and bleed it out on your own.

  30. #29
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    Some people have had to raise the back of the car to bleed the slave. The bleeder is at the back, with the piston up front. Air rises in the liquid and would not make it to the bleeder.

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    the pedal feels ok now, could there still be air in the system? i feel like it wouldn't work or i would hear girding while trying to put it into gear if it didn't completely disengage the clutch

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