1999 Passat 1.8T died on freeway, will not start again
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  1. #1
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    1999 Passat 1.8T died on freeway, will not start again

    While driving the car shut off an would not start again. The car just makes a monotone sound when trying to start. Took the battery to Autozone and they said it had a low charge but were able to charge it. ICM seems to be ok. Can't really see the tb because of the two hoses in front of it. But did find what look to be like 3 teeth. There is a couple clicks and short humming noise under the hood when the key is turned to the first position. Any suggestions? Thanks.

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    Sounds like an electrical problem, but otherwise, I am no help. If the sound lasts like 2 seconds, it's probably just the fuel pump starting up.


    My neon used to have that sound when you turn it to the 'on' position (but not ignition). Sorry, this is the only car with Fuel Injection I know. lol

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    suzq044 - Thanks, I never thought about that.

    Mizzou73 - Thanks for the info.

    I've been reading about people having switches and/or relays go out. The people at Autozone thought it could be something with the fuel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizzou73 View Post
    PASSAT LAWSUIT SETTLEMENT. CHECK INTO IT. I dont think it is the sludge issue but sounds like a senor deal. http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...ment-audi.html
    It's definitely not that and quit spamming that crap, it already has its own sticky thread ya newb.
    Last edited by Urlik; 12-26-2010 at 06:11 AM.
    Original Club B5 member: 08 R32 & missing my 99 B5

  6. #5
    Overdrive Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakebay
    While driving, the car shut off and would not start again. The car just makes a monotone sound when trying to start.

    Can't really see the tb because of the two hoses in front of it. But I did find what look to be like 3 teeth.

    There is a couple clicks and short humming noise under the hood when the key is turned to the first position.
    A few clicks and the throttle body making a quiet hum is normal.

    What kind of teeth? Like the kind you'd find on a rubber timing belt? If so, it's likely your timing belt (or an associated roller or tensioner) has failed.

    This is what the timing belt teeth look like when they are still connected to the belt.


    About the sound the engine makes when trying to start... Does it sound like it's turning over freely (a bit too freely) but just no cylinders are firing? Does it seem to spin over too easily like there isn't the normal amount of load on the starter motor? Those are both signs of a failed timing belt.

    The 1.8t engine is what they call an "interference engine". What that means is, if the camshaft-to-crankshaft timing ever goes off, the pistons will collide with the valves. When the timing belt fails, the cam-to-crank timing is lost and damage results. Usually a number of valves get bent and the head needs to be rebuilt or replaced. With bent valves, the engine will have no compression and the starter will spin it over easily because it has less to push against.

    If your timing belt did indeed fail, you're looking at a timing belt kit, a rebuilt or replacement head and the labor to put it all together. Last time I was at Dubwerks, I asked for a ballpark price for a timing belt job for a friend of mine. They said it runs somewhere around $900 for parts and labor. You'd be looking at that plus whatever head work is needed.

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    Akhristov? Hey, that guy owes me money!
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    Like Steve said, it's probably the timing belt. The humming noise you hear under the hood is not the fuel pump, it's most likely the throttle body.

    Instead of continuously cranking the engine (which just makes a timing belt failure worse), you should pop the hoses that block the timing belt cover up onto the valve cover, and inspect the timing belt.

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    It sounds more like it wants to turn over now, just a bit sluggish. The timing belt does not move when attempting to start but the other belts do. Can't seem to get the hose in front of the tb cover off. Anything else it could be? *crosses fingers* ha

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    I was reading about people having to change ignition switch? Relays?

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    Overdrive Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakebay View Post
    The timing belt does not move when attempting to start but the other belts do.
    If you can look behind (or remove) the plastic cover hiding the timing belt, and the timing belt does not move when the engine is being turned over, and all the other belts are moving... your timing belt has failed.

    This is a picture with the plastic cover removed to expose the timing belt.

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    Akhristov? Hey, that guy owes me money!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakebay View Post
    Anything else it could be? *crosses fingers* ha
    Very unlikely. And I really feel that you put yourself in bad position by cranking the engine instead of just leaving it alone and properly inspecting it. Now, isntead of just a brand new head, you could potentially be looking at buying an entire engine block.

    That is, UNLESS you confused the timing belt with another belt. Oh, and the hoses in front of the cover are not supposed to come off.

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    Nothing else electrical or with the ignition or fuel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakebay View Post
    Nothing else electrical or with the ignition or fuel?
    As stated, unless you were incorrect with your previous statements, NO. Finding broken-off teeth is indicative, the timing belt not moving is definitive. Confirm these, and we're done. Theoretically, you may also have "electrical or ignition or fuel" problems, but you can deal with them after you replace the cylinder head.

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    Ok. Just wanted took sure. The tb was supposedly changed before I got the car but the teeth are more than likely from this belt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by akhristov View Post
    That is, UNLESS you confused the timing belt with another belt. Oh, and the hoses in front of the cover are not supposed to come off.
    Know what those 2 hoses are? The smaller one is kinda beat up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakebay View Post
    Ok. Just wanted took sure. The tb was supposedly changed before I got the car but the teeth are more than likely from this belt?
    Yes, but that's why pictures or a detailed description are important. The water pump belt, IIRC, is toothed too - but is much narrower than the timing belt. And no, a water pump wouldn't suddenly stop your engine. At least, not on a '99 AEB.

    EDIT: The belt may have been changed, but what parts were done, and how many miles ago? My 2000 is on it's third, going on fourth belt.

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    These are 2 of the teeth I found behind the tb cover.


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    Quote Originally Posted by scotts13 View Post
    Yes, but that's why pictures or a detailed description are important. The water pump belt, IIRC, is toothed too - but is much narrower than the timing belt. And no, a water pump wouldn't suddenly stop your engine. At least, not on a '99 AEB.

    EDIT: The belt may have been changed, but what parts were done, and how many miles ago? My 2000 is on it's third, going on fourth belt.
    I believe it was done around 90-100K ago. Trying to contact the people that did it to get more info on what was done.

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    Including a ruler in the pic would have helped, but those appear to have the proportions of timing belt teeth. I'll bet when you get to the bottom of the belt, you'll find a lot more missing. Odd to strip teeth like that, though. I believe the most common failure on your engine is for the tensioner to fail and the belt go slack. Later models, where the water pump is driven by the timing belt, strip teeth when the pump seizes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakebay View Post
    I believe it was done around 90-100K ago. Trying to contact the people that did it to get more info on what was done.
    Ah. Then it was due to be done again; most would say well overdue. VW's official printed specification remains 105,000 miles, but dealers are privately advising 80,000 miles. The recommendations here on the forum are 65 - 80 thousand, with the lower figure applying to older engines like yours.

    Adding it up: Engine stopped, 100k, AEB, found teeth, belt not moving... Sorry.

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    where did you manage to find those teeth? idk if id necessarily be able to just pick up two little rubber pieces and assume theyre teeth to my timing belt..

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    Quote Originally Posted by scotts13 View Post
    Including a ruler in the pic would have helped, but those appear to have the proportions of timing belt teeth. I'll bet when you get to the bottom of the belt, you'll find a lot more missing. Odd to strip teeth like that, though. I believe the most common failure on your engine is for the tensioner to fail and the belt go slack. Later models, where the water pump is driven by the timing belt, strip teeth when the pump seizes.
    Sorry, didn't think of that. They are like 1" by 3/16". From the part of the belt that I could see, all the teeth are still intact. The belt is still tight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tru NY Player View Post
    where did you manage to find those teeth? idk if id necessarily be able to just pick up two little rubber pieces and assume theyre teeth to my timing belt..
    I pulled back the tb cover and found them laying inside.

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    Yes, those are timing belt teeth. At the least, you bent some valves. Where are you? It's a big state.

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    Around the Corpus area.

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    PZ
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    A bit far. The only shop I know of down there is a trans shop. I expect you will be looking at pulling the head off the engine to determine the damage. If the valves are bent, I would expect a shop to charge close to $2K for repairs. If you DIY, check out www.headsonly.com for a replacement head.

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    I called a shop and the guy said something about immobilizer? And that if it was the tb there would've been a loud pop.

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    Overdrive Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    Your 1999 does not have an immobilizer. That is something they started in later years.

    A timing belt can fail without making a loud pop.

    If the top section of the timing belt (the part you can see in my above post) is not moving when the rest of the engine is spinning over, the timing belt has failed. If this is the case, unfortunately, there is no way around it.

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    Yeah. The same thing happened to my Talon while on the highway. 75mph cruise and then...nothing. Like you, this was my first encounter with a broken timing belt so I tried to restart it a few times. All you hear is a "Whirrrrrrrrrr" when you engage the starter. That's the crank turning freely with little resistance in the cylinders since there is minimal or no compression.

    You're looking at a new head and TB kit (~$2k) or a new car. Hard way to learn a lesson, but the belt should be changed every 65-70k miles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Jollimore View Post
    You're looking at a new head and TB kit (~$2k) or a new car. Hard way to learn a lesson, but the belt should be changed every 65-70k miles.
    indeed it is a rather harsh lesson. goes to show you that preventative maintenance MUST be followed to the letter. you might make it a tiny bit farther, but it isn't lasting and doom can occur.

    that said, revised timing belt change specification was reset to 75k.
    v6, and 1.8t alike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Jollimore View Post
    You're looking at a new head and TB kit (~$2k) or a new car. Hard way to learn a lesson, but the belt should be changed every 65-70k miles.
    The lesson here is to get a car equipped with the timing chain and forget about the timing belt replacement. Or at least get a car with more reliable timing belt system which can last as long as, or longer than advertised 105K miles.

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