058 vs 06A head Installation puzzle
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  1. #1
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    058 vs 06A head Installation puzzle

    I finally got done with the lower part of my AWM engine, took all the pistons out, cleaned them, lubed them and changed all the rings. Also honed the cylinder walls and replaced the oil pump, oil stand gasket, etc. Now I’m getting ready to install the head. I’ve acquired a used one that seems to be in good shape, the guy I’ve got it from rebuilt his AEB engine and wanted to used a 06A head, after he installed it, didn’t like the results and went back to use the old style head.
    After reviewing the good head, and comparing it with my damaged one, I noticed that the cams are positioned differently. Now (I must point out that my passat is a 2004), I also noticed that my head has the 058 coding and the one I’m replacing it with has the 06A code, Here are pictures of the two head sides:
    The “old one”

    The “new one”



    After Lining the lobes in the same area, look at the TDC mark on the 06A head:

    I’m trying to make sense out of this puzzle; my old head has the exhaust valves bent but the cams and timing never got damaged, so I don’t think they’ve moved at all. The new replacing head supposedly worked fine and should be synchronized as well. One idea that comes to mind is that I read there are differences between the 058 and the 06A heads relating to cam gears, but I don’t know exactly what that means or if that is the case here, or if I need to adjust something on the 06A head, or does variable timing compensates for it? .
    I really need to find an answer for this so I understand what is going on.
    Any help is much appreciated. Thanks.
    Last edited by warmigusto; 07-27-2010 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Pictures upload

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  3. #2
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    the 06a head has the vvt while the 058 doesn't, so i would assume this is where that difference arises from


    you can use both heads on the block but you have to change the cam tensioner before you can use the vvt head with a non vvt ecu

  4. #3
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    Yes, that's what I thought after reading the general info on this forum with regards to the 1.8T. But as I mentioned, the 058 head came out of my 2004 passat, it only has 39K and as you can tell on the pictures, it is as it came from factory, with all the parts and upgrades the 06A has, before I'd go ahead and install it I put them next to each other to compare them since they have different codes and noticed the timing difference, and that got me spinning around. As far as I can see, they're identical on parts and accessories, the difference is on the cam lobes position at TDC. The general description on this heads comparison mentions that there's "cam gear" difference between them, but does not explain exactly how or what is the difference. I'm hoping that's the reason for the different timing sets, and someone knows how to correct it or at least explain it so I can install the new head correctly.

  5. #4
    Akhristov? Hey, that guy owes me money!
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    Take a look at the timing marks that are located by the cam chain tensioner in the back of the head and make sure they're lined up with the notches (I hope you know what I'm talking about). After you do that, make sure that the camshaft pulley part number matches your AWM engine (which should be 06B 109 111). It can go on two different ways. Make sure you flip it around the correct way so that the TDC mark points up and lines up with the valve cover.

    Let me know if this helps.
    Last edited by akhristov; 07-28-2010 at 04:33 PM.

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    PZ
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    That 058 head (AEB) is not from the factory on an 04 Passat.
    Last edited by PZ; 07-31-2010 at 07:38 AM.

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    As allways, thank you guys for the tips and imputs. Akhristov, is this the marks you're talking about?:

    this picture is from the good head and the marks lined and the Camshaft sprocket also lines with the cover, On the other hand, when I line the original damaged head gears as the picture, then the sprocket mark is almost complete horizontal to the right side. Both sprockets have 06B 109 111 and correctly installed.

  8. #7
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    PZ, I dont think the head came of an AEB engine, The car does have only 39K miles and it is very unlikely that it already went thru a head replacement. What is confusing to me (I'm a novice) is that after reading several sites and info, this engine should have the 06A head. The block is a 06A block, here's the picture:

    When I started the head installation process, I realized the difference between the two heads timing positions, and noticed the coding on their side. Now, the 058 head also has this stamp on the other side:

    and finally, to make things more confusing, this is a picture of the same head showing the engine code before being pulled:

    and this one after pulled:


    If that's not enough, when I first scanned with VAG COM (ROSS-TECH) it diagnosed it as a 1.8T 4MOTION model, yet my car is FWD, how about that for a change?

    But putting all that aside, I'd like to know the reason for the discrepancy on the timing between the two heads. My head got damaged due to a hole on the oil pan and oil starvation, valves froze and lost compresion on all 4 cylinders, the belts never jumped or showed any signs of wear, they're in such a good shape that I considered at one point in reusing them (I'm not, got new set), and the head cams are as smooth as silk, no reason to believe it jumped.

  9. #8
    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    The VVT only advances/retards the intake cam a few degrees in relation to the exhaust cam. VVT won't account for things being 70º out of time.

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    So you have a big port AWM? That is strange.

    If the old cams seized, the cam key may have sheared off and the pulley would have spun. Pull the old cam pulley off and see if that is what happened.

  11. #10
    Akhristov? Hey, that guy owes me money!
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    Yeah, those were the marks I was talking about. That's strange. If everything lines up correctly on the new head, I don't think you should be too worried about it, but like PZ said, pull the old cam pulley and see if the camshaft is damaged.

    Is your intake manifold a big-port or a small-port? I see that you have the big port IM gasket. It's very unlikely that VW put a big-port head on your car from the factory.

    Also, take a photo of the back of the old head. The AEB big-port head doesn't have a hole for the SAIP solenoid, so if yours doesn't have it, the odds are somebody put an AEB head on and updated the ECU to ignore its absence.

  12. #11
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    The manufacture must have messed that one up big time. Ported out a ATW head and stamped AWM on it.

    Akhristov. In his picture of the old head in the car there looks to be SAI pipe that is just above the exhaust manifold and right with the PVC pipe.

  13. #12
    Akhristov? Hey, that guy owes me money!
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    Quote Originally Posted by audi2ptzero View Post
    The manufacture must have messed that one up big time. Ported out a ATW head and stamped AWM on it.

    Akhristov. In his picture of the old head in the car there looks to be SAI pipe that is just above the exhaust manifold and right with the PVC pipe.
    Humm.... I guess it's possible that they recycled an old AEB head at the factory.

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    OH Boy, you guys ROCK!, I just took the cam pulley off and PZ was on the ball!:

    The cam key did sheared off, as soon as the bolt came out I felt something fall out of it, indeed it was a piece of it:

    That explains the timing issue. As far as the large port AWM, if it is extrange for you guys, then I'm in worst situation. Here is the picture of both heads from behind. I'd still like to know if indeed is a big port and its potential as far as increasing HP or so. Would this also have to do with the "4MOTION" description of the car?, the right head is the damaged one.

    Once again thank you for all the help.

  15. #14
    Akhristov? Hey, that guy owes me money!
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    I'm glad you figured out the timing issue. As for big vs small port, I believe you have to go over 350 or 400 hp to notice any significant power gain. The smaller ports are actually more responsive in the lower range. So it doesn't have anything to do with 4motion.

    Make sure that your intake manifold matches though. Is your current one a small or big port?

  16. #15
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    I believe his new one is the small port. I am surprised the timing belt did not strip before the cam key broke. Those bearing surfaces must look ugly.

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    Akhristov, excuse my ignorance but how do I tell wether It is a big or a small port?, I'm not that familiar with both engines, other than I just found out.
    And I'll be doing the installation of the new head hopefully this sunday. After I get the car running I'll look into the damage head and perhaps rebuild it, but that's for another day.

  18. #17
    PZ
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    The intake ports on the AEB are much larger than the ATW, AUG or AWM heads. The intake gasket pics make the differences obvious.

  19. #18
    Akhristov? Hey, that guy owes me money!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    The intake ports on the AEB are much larger than the ATW, AUG or AWM heads. The intake gasket pics make the differences obvious.
    I wonder if the gaskets are the ones that are different, not the ports?

  20. #19
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    I see, but looking at the pictures, it seems like the old head has the large ports doesn't it?, I'll check that tomorrow after work.
    Last edited by warmigusto; 07-30-2010 at 10:35 PM.

  21. #20
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    the old one does have the big ports

    hey if you get a chance and you dont mind PM me your VIN number and also on the head part number thats 058 103 303 D right? or is that a G?

    i would love to run your vin threw ETKA and see what it comes up with for your original head part number and also runs the head part number on the head you have now and see what that comes back as.

  22. #21
    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    First picture= small port head with small port gasket.
    Second picture= small port head with big port gasket.

    Look at the height to width ratio of the ports and it becomes obvious. The big port shape is wider in proportion to height. To compare, look at the big port gasket and notice the height to width ratio.

    The OP got the head from a guy who used it on an AEB engine(big port). That's probably where the big port gasket came from.

  23. #22
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    I figured that the person taking the pics just used the same gasket, but looking at it again it just looks like the 058 head has a small port gasket and the 06A head has a AEB large port gasket.

    Pics were also taken at different angles instead of straight on to compare them.

  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmigusto View Post
    I'd still like to know if indeed is a big port and its potential as far as increasing HP or so.

    None unless your making over 500hp. The smaller ports actually help increase the velocity, not till you are flowing enough air and causing the velocity to be too high will you need to have a large port head. The small port heads seem to hit a wall at around 450whp.

  25. #24
    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    You also want the intake manifold ports and head ports to match. Running two different sizes (even with a transition spacer) is something to avoid if you can. I've heard of people welding the runners from a small port manifold onto an AEB plenum so they could use a small port head and avoid transition turbulence in the intake path. Tuning the air column (plenum to valves) to flow well at a particular rpm is also important. Breaking that column into two differently sized sections will have unknown effects on the resonance of the intake path.

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by audi2ptzero View Post
    I figured that the person taking the pics just used the same gasket, but looking at it again it just looks like the 058 head has a small port gasket and the 06A head has a AEB large port gasket.

    Pics were also taken at different angles instead of straight on to compare them.
    Same thing I did. I thought it was the same gasket

  27. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by PZ View Post
    Same thing I did. I thought it was the same gasket
    I think we all came to that assumption.

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    Sorry for the confusion guys, I compared both head ports and they're identical size, Steve is right with regards to the gaskets. They're both small ports.
    I wasn't sure if the small port engine can go up that high in HP, if I decide to increase the power I'd not go over 300 HP, even 250 HP would do it for me, perhaps when I rebuild this head I'll go ahead and do it both at the same time, then, I'll be asking your advise once again, although any tips now wouldn't hurt.
    For now, tomorrow is the day for the install. I'll keep you posted.

  29. #28
    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    I ran across this picture while looking up something else. It shows the two port sizes side by side. (these are intake manifolds)


  30. #29
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    since i cant PM you back the original cylinder head your car should have came with was
    06A 103 351 L

    058 103 373 D comes up as AWP or AWW engine code for some reason which i believe is a jetta/gold engine code

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    Well, I installed the head on Sunday, other than a making sure everything was clean it went OK, just took my time and torqued the bolts to specs. Probably next weekend I'll be able to continue with the oil pump, pan, and other components, I'm hoping I'll be able to do the belts then. We'll see.
    Thanks for the picture comnparison Steve, This is my manifold:



    As far as the damaged head coding, who knows?. Sorry about the glitch on the PM.

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