difficult start after fueling
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  1. #1
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    difficult start after fueling

    i've fueled the car for the second time now since i bought it (both times with about 1/2 tank left) and i've noticed that the car has a problem starting for the first time. the second one and thereafter go without any problems. idk if it's common or a problem i should check into?

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    Super (Charged) Moderator, Grinding Gears...gone fishing! ScottPassat2.8's Avatar
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  4. #3
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    i'll replace it and hopefully that'll be it - thanks

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    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    One common cause of this (difficult hot re-start) is a failed Coolant Temperature Sender. Inexpensive part and not too hard to replace on your AEB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in Chicago View Post
    One common cause of this (difficult hot re-start) is a failed Coolant Temperature Sender. Inexpensive part and not too hard to replace on your AEB.
    that one is getting replaced as well - i think that's what's causing my misfire after starting (since it wasn't the icm)

  7. #6
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    Let us know how it goes. After you replace it.

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    will do but it'll be probably 2-3 weeks...i have to get a laptop first (my old one took a dump) to get all the codes etc to make sure i'm not throwing money out for parts i don't need to replace - which i already did getting a new icm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in Chicago View Post
    One common cause of this (difficult hot re-start) is a failed Coolant Temperature Sender. Inexpensive part and not too hard to replace on your AEB.
    How hard is this to replace on an ATW? After reading around the forums a bit, I seem to have this exact problem (hot as hell outside, could turn over but would not start).

  10. #9
    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VWinOrlando View Post
    How hard is this to replace on an ATW? After reading around the forums a bit, I seem to have this exact problem (hot as hell outside, could turn over but would not start).
    The "hot restart" problem, when caused by the CTS, can happen even in the dead of winter. What happens is the CTS is telling the ECM that the engine is cold no matter what the engine temperature actually is. When you go to start, the ECM dials up the fueling to cold start mixture and you end up flooding the engine. Holding the gas pedal to the floor and cranking it will usually clear the flooding and allow it to start. Once started, it'll run a bit rough till the O2 sensor data kicks in and the ECM adjusts fueling back to optimal.

    Is your car having problems hot re-starting (like after shutting it down long enough to gas up)? Or is your car simply hard to start no matter what?

    The sensor is a slight bit harder to change on an ATW then it is on the AEB. With the ATW you have the Combi-Valve bolted to the back of the head which will impede over-the-top access to the CTS. If you pull the top half of the air box, that will allow you room to get a hand around the side/back of the head. You'll be doing the part swap mostly by feel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in Chicago View Post
    The "hot restart" problem, when caused by the CTS, can happen even in the dead of winter. What happens is the CTS is telling the ECM that the engine is cold no matter what the engine temperature actually is. When you go to start, the ECM dials up the fueling to cold start mixture and you end up flooding the engine. Holding the gas pedal to the floor and cranking it will usually clear the flooding and allow it to start. Once started, it'll run a bit rough till the O2 sensor data kicks in and the ECM adjusts fueling back to optimal.

    Is your car having problems hot re-starting (like after shutting it down long enough to gas up)? Or is your car simply hard to start no matter what?

    The sensor is a slight bit harder to change on an ATW then it is on the AEB. With the ATW you have the Combi-Valve bolted to the back of the head which will impede over-the-top access to the CTS. If you pull the top half of the air box, that will allow you room to get a hand around the side/back of the head. You'll be doing the part swap mostly by feel.
    **Sorry to OP for hijack**

    Had a lot of work done recently (shaved head due to blown gasket, swapped most hoses, new waterpump). Ever since I got it from the shop about a week 1/2 ago, it'd been running like new. No problems whatsoever.

    Today I head to my car to go to work...I go out to start my car (it was 100+ degrees) and it would sit and turn over but would not start. I sat for a couple mins and tried it again. Eventually after cranking it for about 10-15 sec straight it started (and now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure I had the gas pedal pushed in while cranking it), but was in some kind of "limp" mode i.e. pressing the gas pedal did not give the engine gas. I could switch gears and obviously the engine is idling so it would move forward and reverse, but i could not give it gas in any gear (I have a TIP). At that point, I turned the car off, then cranked it again and it started right up with now issue. I drove down the road a bit, stopped the engine again, and restarted it just to see if it would start up, and it did, as if nothing was wrong.

    It was a bit unnerving considering everything the car has been through in the last month. I thought it sounded more like the CTS because I hadn't refueled recently when this happened (I DID refuel a little over 27 hours before this happened with no symptoms at all during refueling).

    The way you explain it though, I'm thinking maybe it can be something else. The coolant temperature indicator still works as far as I remember. I'll check again when I drive it.

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    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    The refueling doesn't have anything to do with the CTS hot re-start problem other than that's a typical time to experience the problem. You'd be trying to re-start an engine that was just running at full temp not more than five minutes ago.

    Not sure what happened in your case. Was it a one time glitch or is it happening with some frequency?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in Chicago View Post
    The refueling doesn't have anything to do with the CTS hot re-start problem other than that's a typical time to experience the problem. You'd be trying to re-start an engine that was just running at full temp not more than five minutes ago.

    Not sure what happened in your case. Was it a one time glitch or is it happening with some frequency?
    Oh no I figured as much, but I saw the OP was having the problem when refueling so I just wanted to make it clear that this didn't happen when I was refueling.

    This is the first time this has happened. The car has been running perfectly prior to this. Hopefully it does not occur again but if it does then I suppose we'll have a better idea of what's going on.

  14. #13
    Motel Room Moderator VAGguy's Avatar
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    To rule out the purge valve do this.

    Before you head off to the gas station, pop off clamp for the hose on the side of the purge valve that points to the fender. Once you get to the station, remove that hose from the valve. Get gas, then try to start. you may get a CEL (Evap code), but if it starts no problem, the purge valve should be the culprit.

    Before replacing it, remove it and soak it in a bag of carb or maf cleaner and slosh it around a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in Chicago View Post
    The refueling doesn't have anything to do with the CTS hot re-start problem other than that's a typical time to experience the problem. You'd be trying to re-start an engine that was just running at full temp not more than five minutes ago.

    Not sure what happened in your case. Was it a one time glitch or is it happening with some frequency?
    It happened again, and this time it was after I had just been driving at full temp. Turned the engine off, walked to my apartment, then right back to my car...couldn't have been more than 2 mins.

    Thanks for the info.

  16. #15
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    I'm sitting here stuck at work because my car won't start. I replaced the cts last week, thought I was finally done with this issue. Right now, I tried plugging the cts and still no go. What is the next part to try swapping out?

  17. #16
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    Did you try what VAGguy said? ^^^ Check out the purge valve if you haven't already. Sucks to be stuck at work at 2am doesn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SleeperWagon View Post
    Did you try what VAGguy said? ^^^ Check out the purge valve if you haven't already. Sucks to be stuck at work at 2am doesn't it?





    Lol. Yeah it does though. Especially since today is my "Friday" Now I get o spend my "weekend" fucking with different parts trying to get the damn thing to start. I love the car but she can be a real BITCH sometimes.

    Haven't trying VAGguy's suggestion, so it'll be first on the list tomorrow.

  19. #18
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    Ok, so after working with it today and following VAGguy's suggestion, doesn't appear to be anything to do with the purge valve. Also tried disconnecting the battery (was a long shot but worth the try).

    Any other suggestions before I pay ungodly amounts to have it towed to and worked on by a shop?

  20. #19
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    How many miles do you have on your 2000 1.8T? Do you have auto or manual? Have you checked fuel pump and relay?

    You may consider starting a new thread for your no-start problem.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    coolant temperature sensor.

  22. #21
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    He replaced CTS already.

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    Super Stealth Retired Moderator JayTheSnork's Avatar
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    doesn't mean the new one was good.

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    Did you....check the volts on the battery? lol

  25. #24
    Moderate Moderator Steve in Chicago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTheSnork View Post
    doesn't mean the new one was good.
    True. I had one die in less than a week.

    If it's flooding due to CTS, holding the gas pedal to the floor while cranking should clear it and allow it to start.

    I also read somewhere, if the ECM can't get a CTS reading, it uses the intake air temp sensor as an approximation. I don't know if this is actually true, but if it is, completely unplugging the CTS might get it going (if the CTS is what's keeping from starting).

    Are we still talking about a Hot-Restart issue or could this be an entirely new problem (simply will not start, period)?

  26. #25
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    Yes I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try another CTS since they're so cheap. FWIW I had also tried unplugging the CTS completely with no luck, AND tried holding the pedal to the floor while cranking.

    How many miles do you have on your 2000 1.8T? Do you have auto or manual? Have you checked fuel pump and relay?
    ~120k, engine & tranny are newer (i do not recall the fuel pump or relay ever being changed). I have not checked either of those, I'll be sure to do that tomorrow.

    Are we still talking about a Hot-Restart issue or could this be an entirely new problem (simply will not start, period)?
    The original issue was that somtimes (say once out of every 20-25 starts) when it was really hot outside, the car would turn over but just would refuse to start even after cranking for 60 secs straight. I'd wait 5-10 mins and try again and it'd usually fire up without issue, and the engine ran great as if nothing were wrong. From everything I'd read, it pointed to a bad CTS, hence me replacing it.

    The same thing is happening now in that the engine turns over but just will not start. Except, instead of being alright 5-10 mins later, the problem has not gone away this time, it just keeps cranking and will not start. PITA

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    murdered out Jetta, er, B5 Passat mrgreek2002's Avatar
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    Also make sure to give the car a good 15 second idle right after you put it in park and before turning it off. I always do that and never had a problem starting it afterwards.

  28. #27
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    See if you can have someone scan it. It may be the engine speed sensor, but it's pretty hard to diagnose online.

  29. #28
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    bringing this bish back because replacing the cts did not help. i have more problems than just this one (which is nothing big): evap issue, no boost (p1557 iirc) and cyl one misfire (p0300 and p0301). my guess is that starting after fueling problems are due to the evap system.

    now, there's a valve/switch (purge valve VAGguy said) on top of the airbox by the ecm which has one hose going in and a y splitter comming out. one of the hoses after the split goes down to the n75 valve and i was just wondering...can it be the culprit of my lack of boost and can the evap system cause a misfire before the engine warms up (only till just past the 3 line on the temp gauge)?
    i'm also hoping that someone with a bentley can give me resistance values (98 aeb) for that purge valve so i can test it before i go after the dv and n75 (not tested yet due to a fried multimeter).
    icm tested and passed, swapped coils and injectors and still only cyl 1 misses, good pressure from exhaust so the cat is not in pieces and blocking.
    Last edited by allensteiner; 09-15-2010 at 12:18 PM.

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