Fuel trim too rich in Bank 1 and bank 2..........help
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  1. #1
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    Fuel trim too rich in Bank 1 and bank 2..........help

    Ok, here goes my sensitive girl once again. Received a "check engine light" while driving home from San Diego, but figured it might have been the fact that I might not have got the gas cap on tight? So, I let it go....well it has been a month and not gone away.......meaning it would not be that particular problem. I had the engine codes ran and this is what it came up with.....
    P1129 ( Long term fuel trim too rich (bank 2) )
    P1127 (Long term fuel trim too rich (bank 1) )
    P1141 (Load calculation cross check range or performance problem)
    *****
    Also something that might matter is the fact that when I start the car it let's off a really bad smell. (burning very rich). Enough that when you are around the car the smell is really bad.

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  3. #2
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    So a couple of ideas might be a broken TPS (trottle position sensor). I know if it is broken it can cause intermittant burst of fuel from the injector along with an unstable idle which I experience at times. Another thing it might be the "EVAP system". Anybody care to input anything? Tia

  4. #3
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    Foul smelling exhaust is a symptom of running rich. Are your operating temperatures normal?

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkertom
    Foul smelling exhaust is a symptom of running rich. Are your operating temperatures normal?
    Tom, I am "operating normal temperatures". I know now I am operating in a start-up mode however, with the rich smell of gas when starting and the codes I am experiencing. I had the same codes a few months back, and fixed the problem when I noticed that my coolant gauge was not working. I replaced my Coolant temp sensor and all was well. Until my drive back from San Diego. I have also noticed sometimes when I start-up the car that it is in a momentary "limp-mode". I drive about 20 feet and then my normal driving conditions appear once again.

  6. #5
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    The P1141 is the tip-off.

    Find what the main sensor is for load calculation and you've found your problem.

    Any engine mods on this car?

    Couple other things could be wrong but I kind of doubt it.

  7. #6
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    damn that is how my car smells all the time now. maybe if I put the cat back on. anyhow bump and good luck with the problem.


    Nick

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky
    The P1141 is the tip-off.

    Find what the main sensor is for load calculation and you've found your problem.

    Any engine mods on this car?

    Couple other things could be wrong but I kind of doubt it.
    That is funny that you say the P1141 is the "tip-off". That one is the tricky code that I dont understand. It tells me that there is a "performance problem", but what does it mean when it says: " Load calculation cross check range?" Is that talking about a bad sensor?

    I do have mods. The one that could be of any problem would be my exhaust, but I just had brand new Cats put on my car about 3 months ago and that was thoroughly checked.

    THANK YOU ALL!

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by glxpassat
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky
    The P1141 is the tip-off.

    Find what the main sensor is for load calculation and you've found your problem.

    Any engine mods on this car?

    Couple other things could be wrong but I kind of doubt it.
    That is funny that you say the P1141 is the "tip-off". That one is the tricky code that I dont understand. It tells me that there is a "performance problem", but what does it mean when it says: " Load calculation cross check range?" Is that talking about a bad sensor?

    I do have mods. The one that could be of any problem would be my exhaust, but I just had brand new Cats put on my car about 3 months ago and that was thoroughly checked.

    THANK YOU ALL!
    With all due respect, if you don't know what load calculation means in regards to your car, it is not possible for you to know if one of the mods is a problem.

    Stock replacement cats from VW?

    What OTHER mods?

  10. #9
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    With all due respect, if you don't know what load calculation means in regards to your car, it is not possible for you to know if one of the mods is a problem.

    Stock replacement cats from VW?
    And that my friend is why I am asking this question on these forums :-)

    The cats were replaced under my warranty by the dealer.

  11. #10
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    Someone else help this person.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky
    Someone else help this person.
    I guess I have somehow offended you! All I am asking is a simple question. I am here to learn. I know quiet a bit about my car, but I dont' know everything there is and that is what these forums are here for. So, Thanks anyway Sharky.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by glxpassat
    That is funny that you say the P1141 is the "tip-off". That one is the tricky code that I dont understand. It tells me that there is a "performance problem", but what does it mean when it says: " Load calculation cross check range?" Is that talking about a bad sensor?
    To me, what it means is that your car is not sensing load properly, so that it's going into open-loop (richer mixtures) when it should be in closed-loop. I think what Sharky is telling you is to find out what the primary load-sensing mechanism is - is it throttle position vs. rpm? I dunno either, but that's the direction to go.

    Hey, Sharky - can't you tell us what the primary load-sensing mechanism is on a V6?

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty
    Quote Originally Posted by glxpassat
    That is funny that you say the P1141 is the "tip-off". That one is the tricky code that I dont understand. It tells me that there is a "performance problem", but what does it mean when it says: " Load calculation cross check range?" Is that talking about a bad sensor?
    To me, what it means is that your car is not sensing load properly, so that it's going into open-loop (richer mixtures) when it should be in closed-loop. I think what Sharky is telling you is to find out what the primary load-sensing mechanism is - is it throttle position vs. rpm? I dunno either, but that's the direction to go.

    Hey, Sharky - can't you tell us what the primary load-sensing mechanism is on a V6?
    THANK YOU RUSTY FOR GIVING ME A NICE ANSWER. All I want is to fix my car and not get some smart-@ss reply!

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty
    Hey, Sharky - can't you tell us what the primary load-sensing mechanism is on a V6?
    Sure I could, but what fun would that be for me?

    If it was just throttle position versus RPM, the ECM would just have to guess how much intake air the car is using. This would be called a speed-density system.

    VWs don't guess.

    As for smart-ass answer, that is about all you CAN get when you've been asked twice point blank what mods you have on the car, and for some reason my stupid little VW master tech mind can't comprehend, you don't want to tell.

  16. #15
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    You're welcome, Becca! Hope it gets solved soon with minimum $$$. Sorry I'm not more help...

    But what really bugs me is the way-too-rich on startup. When the engine is cold, you're running open-loop anyway. If you're too rich cold, I'm befuddled...

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky
    VWs don't guess...
    OK, this'll be fun, but I have to leave, so I won't know the results 'til tomorrow.

    Mass Airflow. Throttle position vs. MAF. Maf sensor gone bad, reading too much air, so the ECU is dumping fuel???

    Or the MAF sensor is reading too little air for the amount of throttle opening, so the ECU thinks that the engine is under great load, and is dumping fuel???

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty
    You're welcome, Becca! Hope it gets solved soon with minimum $$$. Sorry I'm not more help...

    But what really bugs me is the way-too-rich on startup. When the engine is cold, you're running open-loop anyway. If you're too rich cold, I'm befuddled...
    Rusty, isn't the car in "open-loop" until about 600 degrees? If it is running in an open-loop, but let's say a sensor is not working (which that is what I am trying to "process of elimination") then it will continually be running rich? Is that correct. You have been alot of help by-the-way. :-)

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharky
    VWs don't guess...
    OK, this'll be fun, but I have to leave, so I won't know the results 'til tomorrow.

    Mass Airflow. Throttle position vs. MAF. Maf sensor gone bad, reading too much air, so the ECU is dumping fuel???

    Or the MAF sensor is reading too little air for the amount of throttle opening, so the ECU thinks that the engine is under great load, and is dumping fuel???

    Good Call Rusty.

    Well, I can't say that this is the correct but I just got off the phone with a friend who's a VW mech/tech. He said that in his experience when you get a code that tells you that your "too rich" and a code "Load calculation cross check range or performance problem" that it's almost always the MAF.

    He said to that it may be from using the K&N filter. They usually are a little oily and the residue can get on the sensor and cause it to screw up with it's readings. He said he see's it alot with the Audi's that people have K&N filters on.

    He said that sometimes but not very often you can clean the MAF sensor with electrical cleaner and your fine. But that very seldom works. He wasn't sure what other cleaning solutions might work on it.

    HTH

    Jason

  20. #19
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    Dumping fuel? Must add more air! 8)

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthx32
    Dumping fuel? Must add more air! 8)
    I know huh!!! Make sure we find someone that is full of air ;-). That then will then take away that "rich" problem.

  22. #21
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    Well, Sharky, did we pass the test? :?

  23. #22
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    Any updates?? Are you stranded and need a lift.. :-P j/k

  24. #23
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    I have these same codes. The MAF sensor will be my first target.

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